Pathfinder 1E Lisa Stevens, CEO of Paizo, commenting about ENWorld

[Obryn]

So why did other sites, Paizo being one of them, experience a spike in 3e sales?

(1) Empathy over the whole Dragon/Dungeon thing
(2) More loyal fanbase than any other 3pp, and that fanbase wants to see the company succeed.
(3) Positioned itself as the bastion of 3e/OGL gaming, kind of a beacon for the dispossessed - and see (2) above.
(4) Paizo is the only company still putting out 3e-compatible material of any quality, so if you want new 3e-compatible material, they're the only game in town.
(5) While some may disagree, I don't see EN Publishing as a vital offshoot of ENW - this site is primarily a forum and review place. Paizo, OTOH, is first a merchant and only secondarily a forum.

I don't think there's much of a mystery here.

-O

 

[Ourph]

It seems to me Paizo is a special case here, both because A) they took an anti-4E stance rather early, and likely attracted the business of many anti-4E consumers and B) have a very loyal base of followers/subscribers who buy large quantities of Paizo goods nearly exclusively (and failing that, buy FROM Paizo exclusively).

Not to mention C) Paizo had a big shot in the arm right before the 4e announcement due to community sympathy after WotC pulled the Dungeon and Dragon magazines licenses.

 

[Cadfan]

Well to be honest, there have been occassions when I wondered about a couple of moderators, who openly support 4e. They seemed to quick to jump in and close threads where other moderators would give warnings. I didn't think much about it until a couple of instance of seeing one moderator give a warning or even take part in a thread only to have another mod within another two or three posts jump in and close the thread when the more recent posts were not even controversial.

I've always assumed that represented the moderators discussing the matter on their own, and reaching a decision.

I've never felt the moderators were biased either for or against any edition of the game. I have felt, and do feel, that the moderation policy here has holes large enough to drive a truck through, and that these holes largely stem from an attempt at being as neutral as possible, even to the point of not reacting to blatant trolling for fear of appearing biased.

I mean, comments like

"I really feel that 4e was designed to appeal to people who [have no attention spans/demand instant gratification/aren't ROLE players/can't handle deep games/want a game with the same depth as World of Warcraft/are very young/are narcissists with attention deficit disorder/etc]"

can only be read as an insult directed at people who like 4e. But instead this forum insists upon treating it as a perhaps poorly phrased effort at discussing the game.

 

[Wicht]

Was Paizo the only one that saw this affect?

I gather the answer is no. Someone mentioned that even some brick and mortar stores have seen 3e sales go up. I know the local books a millions has increased their selection of 3e material in the last few months.

They're the only one ever called out as having sales go up after the announcement, while besides here on ENWorld, I've heard the sales dried up line from Necromancer, Goodman, and several other 3PPs posting here.

Necromancer saw their sales dry up because they stopped producing 3e material when the 4e announcement came.

It seems to me Paizo is a special case here, both because A) they took an anti-4E stance rather early, and likely attracted the business of many anti-4E consumers and ...

That seems a bit like revisionism to me. It was march of 2008 when Paizo announced their decision to produce their own rules. Up to that point they had been on the fence, asking their customers what they wanted. While it is true that they continued to produce 3e material, their only other option would be to imitate Necromancer and produce nothing.

I suspect one reason their sales went up was because they continued producing material and others had stopped. Yet I get the feeling that their sales went up for all 3e, not just stuff produced in house.

 

[Caliber]

That seems a bit like revisionism to me. It was march of 2008 when Paizo announced their decision to produce their own rules. Up to that point they had been on the fence, asking their customers what they wanted. While it is true that they continued to produce 3e material, their only other option would be to imitate Necromancer and produce nothing.

From my PoV, while they were "on the fence" so to speak, they seemed biased against the idea of switching editions from the start. I'm not saying they out and out trashed 4E; Paizo employees act pretty much as you'd expect, like professionals. Still, I got the sense early on they did not care for 4E and did not really want to work with it. I assume there were some happy sighs of relief when most of their customers agreed.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I gather the answer is no. Someone mentioned that even some brick and mortar stores have seen 3e sales go up. I know the local books a millions has increased their selection of 3e material in the last few months.

I'm not sure that supports your point; my experience with Books-a-Million is that they get their D&D product when someone sells it off at rock-bottom prices because it isn't moving - in many cases that someone is WoTC. If they've got a lot of something than it generally means it wasn't selling through other channels.

At Gencon, 3.5 stuff was selling at a minimum of 50% off, and a good amount of stuff could be had for $5 a book. Which is not to say that some 3E folks might not be doing well, but I think Paizo is an exception to the rule, if not THE exception to the rule. I'd love to hear from other folks who have seen their sales remain steady or go up, however. I'm also not sure that the 3.5 market wasn't in pretty dire shape even before 4E was announced - others would have to speak to that.

 

[Scribble]

I also kind of wonder if the fact that WoTC "took back the magazines" played a part in the Paizo spike...

People against 4e buying from someone they saw as also hurt by 4e, or people using what money they would have spent on the mags buying other products from paizon instead.

Shrug.

 

[EATherrian]

I also kind of wonder if the fact that WoTC "took back the magazines" played a part in the Paizo spike...

People against 4e buying from someone they saw as also hurt by 4e, or people using what money they would have spent on the mags buying other products from paizon instead.

Shrug.

I've never been pro or anti 4E, but this event put me firmly in Paizo's corner. I had taken a hiatus from Dragon and Dungeon until I saw those awesome four-part Greyhawk maps. That drew me in and made me a fan again. To lose that for what amounts to nothing for me angered me. I'm getting over it, but I'm too young to be this bitter. At least I got all the maps (strokes his precious Flanaess).

 

[Stalker0]

At Gencon, 3.5 stuff was selling at a minimum of 50% off, and a good amount of stuff could be had for $5 a book.

This is my wonder as well. Clearance sales tend to have their desired effect of clearing shelves.

How many people lowered 3.5 book prices when 4e was announced? If most did, then its no wonder their sales increased.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I've heard the sales dried up line from Necromancer, Goodman, and several other 3PPs posting here.

How many new 3.x adventure did goodman put out this year? 0. How many new products of any kind did necro put out since last gencon? 0.

Sorry, but these aren't the best examples.

It seems to me Paizo is a special case here, both because A) they took an anti-4E stance rather early

How early is early? They have never been anti-4E. But they did decide they needed to keep making product (unlike Orcus for whom RPG making is a hobby) and had to decide what system that product was going to take in March. That's a full 7 months after the announcement.

7 Months after the announcement, Wizards couldn't get 3PPs the rules? Paizo didn't decide to go any direction; Wizards didn't give them a choice (unless you count "Go their own way or fold the company since they can't produce product for an unknown amount of time" a choice).