Pathfinder 1E Lisa Stevens, CEO of Paizo, commenting about ENWorld

[Maggan]

Are people really that insecure that they can't allow anyone to speak ill of their favorite version of a little game where you pretend to be wizards?

The problem arise when the opinion on the game is expressed as for example, "3.5 is dumbed down", or "4e is simplified to appeal to kids with short attention spans", phrases I have seen posted here during my time at EN World (and IMO, much of the criticism of 4e in this vein have also be levelled at 3.0).

While those might be "attacks" on the game, they also take potshots at those playing or enjoying the game, and tempers will flare.

/M

 

[billd91]

From my PoV, while they were "on the fence" so to speak, they seemed biased against the idea of switching editions from the start. I'm not saying they out and out trashed 4E; Paizo employees act pretty much as you'd expect, like professionals. Still, I got the sense early on they did not care for 4E and did not really want to work with it. I assume there were some happy sighs of relief when most of their customers agreed.

I think you may be right, to an extent. There was enough early info about 4e to make quite a few of us regular gamers skeptical of the new game direction, I wouldn't expect Paizo to be any different. As Paizo has picked up well-published adventure writers, some with fairly old-school credentials, it's no surprise that they had a tendency to see the development of a dramatically new edition the same way and with a wary eye. I'd probably call it more skepticism than bias against, personally. But that's more a question of spin and motive than really about their willingness to embrace 4e.

Plus, they had plans already running for adventure paths and modules that might not survive the transition from 3.5 to 4e should they embrace the new edition. So I fully expect they had substantial reservations about 4e, both as individuals and as a company.

 

[dmccoy1693]

But even before that announcement, I felt that Paizo as a whole was trending against 4E. I don't want to really call out any of the employees there, as I think they're all cool people, but I have seen several express opinions reflecting a dislike of 4E, and remember similar feelings regarding the previews very early on in the process

Some of the Paizo people have publicly said that 3E is their rules system of preference. Are they not permitted to have an opinion without someone saying they are anti-4E? Others like 4E and play in 4E games with WotC staffers.

(I first begin visiting Paizo around late December/early January in order to get away from the flamewars going on over here at the time. Little did I know that the flamewars going on over at Paizo were a raging inferno compared to ENWorld's bonfire.)

The 4E section of Paizo boards were the only section that was bad and it did get better after Jan when Lisa told everyone to calm down and calmed down even further after the Pathfinder RPG announcement. Now the 4E boards are a rather civil place.

 

[Gundark]

I think she's overstating ENWorld's stand on 4e.

Where did I go first when I first heard about 4e? ENWorld. Why? Because I remembered a little site that first popped up 8 years earlier when 3e was announced, run by a guy named Eric Noah. A site that was very informative about what 3e was going to be.

A site that would one day become ENWorld.

So why would I go anywhere else to learn about 4e? I new I'd find what I was looking for here. Why wouldn't ENWorld have a lot of coverage on 4e? This is where a lot of people come to look for news about D&D and d20 games in particular. I'd think, given that, that there'd be a good deal of coverage on a new edition.

I don't think there's a bias in particular, but generally most of the stuff that gets talked around here is current. Older stuff is occasionally talked about, but it's not a big feature of these boards, many of the people who like the classic editions have their own little communities.

This. Almost to a tee.

 

[The Little Raven]

Huh?

Something unclear about my post?

Jason, a primary designer over at Paizo, began work on the Pathfinder RPG in October 2007. After seven months of work, they released his first alpha in March 2008.

As to my interpretation of the timeline and what it says about Paizo's decision and when it was made... Putting one of your primary in-house talents to developing the core of a new system strikes me as leaning towards that project from the outset, especially in an industry with profit margins as thin as the RPG industry (and especially with Paizo's reliance on traditional book distribution with longer lead-in times, as noted by Erik as a concern).

 

[Lackhand]

Some of the Paizo people have publicly said that 3E is their rules system of preference. Are they not permitted to have an opinion without someone saying they are anti-4E? Others like 4E and play in 4E games with WotC staffers.

Definitely true: Paizo is not a monolith, composed of individuals, etc etc.
However: it's also the case that there are some that arewere way more outspoken about being anti-4e rather than pro-3e.

In other words: you're both right

 

[Rykion]

While the wording might be considered provocative, I would suggest that one of the biggest problems with this whole community is members who take a slam of a game system created by a large company as an insult to themselves.

Imagine how nice this place could be if people didn't seem to see themselves as defined by their game system of choice? Me not liking 4e doesn't make you a buffoon for liking it.

I agree that too many people here take a game a little too seriously. I've avoided the 4E versus 3E threads because they really serve little purpose. I just questioned the idea that the rudeness in the thread being discussed was completely one-sided.

 

[Jack99]

Another reason I usually don't come back here to often is due to vile posters like the guy with the "got milk" avatar. His name escapes me. There is a good handful of posters like him here on ENWorld and it just ruins the whole fun of the site.

/wave

 

[Caliber]

In other words: you're both right

Whohoo! We're #1! We're #1!

McCoy: Lisa asking everyone to cool it helped a little. For a while Gary had to get involved and actually moderate a bit, locking threads, banning posters. In my mind, I don't think it really settled down much at all until the Pathfinder announcement, and there continue to be flare-ups to this day (the release of 4E and then later the GSL were two particularly bad ones; I think the current one might be the result of Gencon).

 

[Wicht]

However: it's also the case that there are some that are way more outspoken about being anti-4e rather than pro-3e.

Really? Who? And what did they say?