4e Ravenloft - Dragon 368

[Cam Banks]

I thought it was because Weis & Hickman threw a hissy fit because Soth "their character", and then killed him so that nobody could use him anymore.

That was how this long time dragonlance fan heard the situation went down, but I could be clouded by bitterness.

I have never known Margaret and Tracy to throw a "hissy fit" about anything, just for the record.

For MWP's Dragonlance products, we just assumed he was never there. It's not explicitly stated, but then again, Ravenloft isn't mentioned either.

And you came late to the party to be so bitter, Terry.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[The Little Raven]

I thought it was because Weis & Hickman threw a hissy fit because Soth "their character", and then killed him so that nobody could use him anymore.

Soth was removed from Ravenloft because of the fact that Dragonlance was licensed to MWP and Ravenloft to Arthaus/WW. I've heard that the reason Soth was killed was because Hickman in particular was annoyed with the whole moving him from DL to RL thing, but I've never seen any real evidence to back it up.

 

[doctorhook]

I don't honestly have high hopes for this. This setting seems the least suited for 4E. ...

Ravenloft is, like, the original PoL setting. It's uniquely suited to 4E.

Concerned because:
1. I saw what "making Forgotten Realms core" did to FR.

I'm pretty sure this never happened, and that nerdrage is simply making you hallucinate. Faerun isn't a part of the default setting. They don't share a history, pantheon, or planet (unless you've decided to overlay PoL on top of FR). Forgotten Realms is only "core" to the extent that elements (mechanical elements especially) can be translated to other worlds and settings. Do you believe this is why FR was changed? Because FR needed it.

Ravenloft is perfect for 4E, and very little needs to be changed here at all.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Excited and concerned.

Excited because, of course, Ravenloft is awesome.

Concerned because:
1. I saw what "making Forgotten Realms core" did to FR.
2. A full Domains of Dread would not fit in a Dragon Mag; what are they cutting out?
3. A culture within WotC that seems unclear on the difference between Emo/goth and actual Gothic horror. I'm looking at you, Tiefling entry in Races & Classes.
4. The RtCR book that seemed to think slasher-fic was a good substitute for tragedy.


Ironically, I do recognize that Wizards really screwing up Ravenloft would be the best way to actually get me in character for playing in Ravenloft (because my nightmares would be realized).

Take a "misusing the stupid emo/goth phrase, whatever that is" point.

 

[frankthedm]

Concerned because:
1. I saw what "making Forgotten Realms core" did to FR.
2. A full Domains of Dread would not fit in a Dragon Mag; what are they cutting out?
3. A culture within WotC that seems unclear on the difference between Emo/goth and actual Gothic horror. I'm looking at you, Tiefling entry in Races & Classes.
4. The RtCR book that seemed to think slasher-fic was a good substitute for tragedy.

Don't be too worried, it is not like 4E is aimed at the video game generation or anything like that.

On the subject of Ravenloft and video games...

http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamespy.com/Images/Weird/CV2/dstrahd.gif
http://images.wikia.com/castlevania/images/1/1d/Castlevania_II_Japan_box_art.jpg
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest - Castlevania Wiki

 

[The Little Raven]

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest - Castlevania Wiki

I love this game. In fact, I love it so much that I was already planning to use it's basic plot in order to run a sequel to the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft mini-campaign I'm running in 4e. After defeating and killing Strahd, the players will be forced to endure a horrible curse, or resurrect him and defeat him for good.

 

[ferratus]

I have never known Margaret and Tracy to throw a "hissy fit" about anything, just for the record.

For MWP's Dragonlance products, we just assumed he was never there. It's not explicitly stated, but then again, Ravenloft isn't mentioned either.

And you came late to the party to be so bitter, Terry.

Don't confuse the length of time I had access to high speed internet (which facilitates wasting time on forums) with the length of time following the setting. I've been growing increasingly bitter since Dragons of Summer Flame. Though, I've grown increasingly at peace since deciding to ignore the Chaos War and everything after it. Still I've been commenting on dragonlance-related forums for 8 years now, almost a quarter of my life.

I'll acknowledge that I don't know this for sure, but it sure seems to match the way the dragonlance brand was handled and the personalities of the people who managed and worked on that brand. That's after all why Paladine and Takhisis were killed off right? To force the editor(s) and brand managers to stop writing novels where Takhisis tries to enter a portal to Krynn?

Getting back to Soth, he both left Ravenloft and was killed off before Sovereign Press knew they were getting the license for dragonlance, if memory serves me correctly.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Yeah Van Richten was cool
Very disgusted with way he, Khelben Blackstaff and Halaster got killed off, grr!!!
Never mind the Sorceror Kings in Dark Sun, double grr!!!!

 

[Irda Ranger]

I'm pretty sure this never happened, and that nerdrage is simply making you hallucinate.

I must have hallucinated Eladrin, the Feywild and Dragonborn being added to the setting. I must has hallucinated the Demiplane of Shadow being renamed the Shadowfell and the Abyss falling into the Elemental Planes Chaos.

You may think these were good changes, but that's a subjective opinion. The fact is that the setting was changed to match the 4E Core. Personally I did not like some of these changes. That's all I'm saying.

Ravenloft is perfect for 4E, and very little needs to be changed here at all.

I agree. And my stated concern was that they will change it anyway.

"Emo/goth" seems to be code for "I don't like this."

Take a "misusing the stupid emo/goth phrase, whatever that is" point.

It's neither a code nor a misuse if you mean what you say and don't use the phrase when it doesn't apply.

"emo" is a genre of music I am familiar with. "goths" self identify as such, and I am as free as anyone to form an opinion about them (yes, I'm judgmental like that). I'm not here to say whether it's good or bad (or whether anything merely fashionable even can be good or bad), but it's not my scene and it seemed obvious to me that the Tiefling entry in R&C and the continued inclusion of the Shadar-kai was either pandering to these "demographics" by WotC to pump sales or included out of genuine interest by certain WotC staffers. Either way, "not my thing."

But feel free to take back your not-so-subtle accusations that I'm using a "code" or "misusing" terms. These are terms with generally accepted meanings, and I called them as I saw them.

 

[The Little Raven]

I must have hallucinated Eladrin, the Feywild and Dragonborn being added to the setting. I must has hallucinated the Demiplane of Shadow being renamed the Shadowfell and the Abyss falling into the Elemental Planes Chaos.

The Feywild, Shadowfell, and Elemental Chaos were actually the new FR cosmology they devised, and they liked it so much that they moved it to the core implied setting. And the Abyss was pushed.

And on "emo" and "goth".... Emo, as a descriptor for a music genre, is so vague as to be effectively worthless, since you have bands that range in style from Fugazi to Sunny Day Real Estate. The goth subculture, on the other hand, has little to nothing in common with the tiefling writeup, aside from a focus on nonconformity.

Unless the tiefling writeup has scads of information about aesthetics, music, and art that matches those subcultures, any claim of a direct connection is weak at best.