Consecrated Ground and game Balance

[Bond James Bond]

First of all, this is my first post here (been an "active" reader for a while), so: Hi!

My group has recently started to play 4ed, and in our games so far (all in the heroic tier), consecrated ground has proven to be the decisive power to have. In fact I think it is quite unbalanced.

Let`s forget about the damage aspect of the power, the problem is just that under the right circumstances, the healing it can provide adds so much durabilty to the group that otherwise challenging (read: exiting) encounter can become a complete piece of cake just because of this one daily power.

1 + cha mod + wis mod healing every round is quite something, combined with things like beacon of hope, its easy to get 13+ healing early on. The main issue, however, is not the amount of Healing but that the healing does not count as regeneration and therefore works even when you are below 0 hp. So, regardless of how high your negative hp`s are, lying in the consecreted zone at the beginning of your tun will get you on your feet and running again, as long as you are not dead, if I understand the rules correctly.

To sum it up: As long as the consecrated ground is active and you are in it, you cannot die, unless the enemy outright kills you in one round.

This lead to the most bizarre scenes in our games so far, including our fighter (well, it was me ) with less than 10 hp front of a Dragon refusing to take a healing word, because he knew that even a critical hit of a Dragon would not kill him, and anything less than a killing blow would still mean a gain of hp`s for him due to consecreted ground next round. It all felt so wrong. There wasnt even any exitement in this fight, though, by the rules it should haven been a decent challenge. Quite simply due to the fact that it practicially involved no realistic risk of dying at all.

Don`t get me wrong, i know there are many ways to counter consecrated ground, e.g. make sure the cleric can`t sustain it (e.g. stunning him or the like), have a mobile fight, were the cleric can`t fast enaough move the zone around, push the people out of the Zone, etc. BUT: not all monsters have access to such powers or are intelligent enough to employ them in such a way. For them, and I am specificially refering to your average solo brute, consecrated ground leaves them no choice of focusing player one by one and killing them, i.e. beating them even when the are already below 0, which I normally try to avoid as a DM.

So what is your experience with consecrated ground? Would you agree that it at least should count as regeneration, so that you can`t get out of negative hp by just lying in he Zone?

 

[burntgerbil]

Consecrated ground is a small area of effect. Yes, the cleric can move it as a move action, but that's his move and minor every round. All of the combats we have seen in 4e so far have been very dynamic, with lots of movement. If this is the case in your game, it should not be the overpowered thing you say it is.

1) it only heals bloodied allies
2) Something as smart as a dragon should would wise up to that tactic unless he was trapped somehow.

 

[James McMurray]

It's definitely nice, but it's not a solo killer. Even the lowly adult white dragon is smart enough to know that if it can't kill something that can kill it, it should move away. It's also big enough that pretty reliably grab the fighter and fly him out of he zone. Or it could back off and wait for its breath to refresh, then strafe.

Slamming a PC that is down is something I tend to avoid as well, but the monsters aren't usually so stupid that they'll wait for the PC to heal so they can hit it again. Once they know what is going on, they do what every PC I've ever seen has done in the same situation: keep hitting it while it's down or run like hell and come back better prepared.

If it's too much to bear, changing the power to grant regeneration instead of healing should do the trick. It'll lower the amount they heal every turn and prevent it from being a continuous death avoider. Then again, killing a PC because it's the only option the monster had might do the trick as well.

 

[Chen_93]

Its a strong power but easily counterable. If you're repeatedly dropping players in the zone the monsters will likely begin to learn and PCs are going to be dying a lot more than if the zone was NOT present. Someone gets dropped they can be coup de graced by the opponents allies, which is not unreasonable if the people you drop continue to rise.

Simply focusing on the cleric who cast it is a pretty decent way to deal with it too.

 

[Cadfan]

Its a 3x3 square. I've rarely see more than two characters in it at a time. The cleric often isn't one of them. This suggests an obvious solution.

 

[Bond James Bond]

Its a 3x3 square. I've rarely see more than two characters in it at a time. The cleric often isn't one of them. This suggests an obvious solution.

Yes, I get you.

Perhaps it`s just my and my old 3rd ed thinking, but as I DM I usually tried to avoid to go after a certain player in particular and kill him (except for rp reasons of course). Especially when he is "down" (unconcious) already.

But thinking about it, 4th ed leaves not that much choice, at least when players can often so easily bounce back from negative hp and death by itself isn`t that much of a penalty now as it was in previous editions.

Still, consecrated ground is certainly more powerful than most other dailies (at least in heroic tier). I don´t know, but are there actually other powers which grant healing per round (which do not count as regeneration)?

Thanks for the input!

 

[Cadfan]

Leader dailies tend to be awfully powerful. My theory is that since they benefit everyone in the party, they get to be better than average.

 

[Staffan]

Still, consecrated ground is certainly more powerful than most other dailies (at least in heroic tier). I don´t know, but are there actually other powers which grant healing per round (which do not count as regeneration)?

Spirit of Health (Cleric utility 22) can trigger one healing surge per round, but is of course limited by the surges the target(s) have. It also requires a minor action from the target.

Healing Sun (Radiant Servant utility 12) creates a burst 2 zone that heals any ally in the zone for 5+Cha hp, and zaps any undead or demon for 1d10+Cha. It requires a standard action to sustain, and ends if you're bloodied. It should also be noted that since it's not a cleric power, it doesn't benefit from Healing Lore.

 

[Regicide]

There are a lot of dailies that are pretty much guaranteed wins for anything but the most vicious fight. 4E fights are generally going to be pretty easy until a party's dailies are used up.

1 + cha mod + wis mod doesn't level nicely and you'll find it's less effective at higher levels where it's healing has only gone up a couple points but monsters are hitting quite a bit harder.

 

[Bond James Bond]

1 + cha mod + wis mod doesn't level nicely and you'll find it's less effective at higher levels where it's healing has only gone up a couple points but monsters are hitting quite a bit harder.

That`s true.

Still, my main gripe with consecrated ground remains. That you have a 3x3 Zone in which people automatically recover from < 0 HP withou any sacrifice of ressources (healing surges).

So even on higher levels, and even if conserated ground would heal just 1 single HP, it still would force the DM into deliberatly trying to focus and kill all players in the Zone one at a time. If he plays it "nice", i.e. staying away from players who are below zero and fights the rest of the group first, he might as well fight a bunch of trolls with immunity to fire/acid .