Minions require attack roll to be killed

[Asmor]

I love minions as a general rule, but I really don't like how they automatically die when subjected to any kind of damage that doesn't require an attack roll, e.g. starting their turn in a cloud of daggers or adjacent to a wall of fire.

So I'm considering a house rule that minions only die if one of their defenses is successfully hit by an attack roll.

 

[Kordeth]

I love minions as a general rule, but I really don't like how they automatically die when subjected to any kind of damage that doesn't require an attack roll, e.g. starting their turn in a cloud of daggers or adjacent to a wall of fire.

So I'm considering a house rule that minions only die if one of their defenses is successfully hit by an attack roll.

This makes powers like Cleave and a lot of controller-esque damaging Zone powers significantly less useful.

 

[WhatGravitas]

This makes powers like Cleave and a lot of controller-esque damaging Zone powers significantly less useful.

They become, in fact, invincible for all non-attacks.

A better house rule is, I reckon, the one that non-attack roll-based damage effects instead bloodies them and that bloodied minions die from any damage as before.

This still means a Cloud of Daggers can autokill them, but you have to spend two actions on it - that's a huge investment.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Stalker0]

How about you just roll a saving throw against automatic damage. If they pass they live, if they fail they die. No extra statuses to keep track of.

 

[keterys]

There's been an extensive discussion in this thread on this topic. And some others, too.

My suggestion there and elsewhere to deal with this was noted above, but comes off as less of a nerf because it also allows missed damage to work for players (something that I've seen personally frustrate some people)

Remove the existing minion rule, change to 'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

The saving throw method is probably the one I'd support afterwards, just realize it will be perceived as a nerf by some players.

 

[Asmor]

They become, in fact, invincible for all non-attacks.

A better house rule is, I reckon, the one that non-attack roll-based damage effects instead bloodies them and that bloodied minions die from any damage as before.

This still means a Cloud of Daggers can autokill them, but you have to spend two actions on it - that's a huge investment.

Cheers, LT.

That defeats the entire purpose of minions; now I have to keep track of something. The beauty of minions is that there is nothing to keep track of, ever. If I'm keeping track of bloodied, it's only slightly more difficult to keep track of hit points so I might as well just use regular monsters.

How about you just roll a saving throw against automatic damage. If they pass they live, if they fail they die. No extra statuses to keep track of.

That's actually not a bad solution!

 

[WhatGravitas]

That defeats the entire purpose of minions; now I have to keep track of something. The beauty of minions is that there is nothing to keep track of, ever. If I'm keeping track of bloodied, it's only slightly more difficult to keep track of hit points so I might as well just use regular monsters.

Ah, right - I usually track bloodied with little rings made of red paper, so for me the extra effort is two seconds, but yeah, it's extra tracking (and I don't use it - yet).

That's actually not a bad solution!

That's really a clever solution, though I'm a bit concerned that a string of good rolls could make the minion very, very enduring! But that's probably not that bad.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Kordeth]

How about you just roll a saving throw against automatic damage. If they pass they live, if they fail they die. No extra statuses to keep track of.

I like this, but I'd make one small adjustment: Minions only save against damage that is purely automatic. If the damage required an attack roll at all to be triggered (even if it was against another enemy), the minion dies automatically. That keeps things like Cleave and splash-damage effects moving quickly and still nice and useful while not turning Rain of Steel into a minion meat-grinder.

 

[Stalker0]

The saving throw method is probably the one I'd support afterwards, just realize it will be perceived as a nerf by some players.

That's because it is

 

[Asmor]

That's really a clever solution, though I'm a bit concerned that a string of good rolls could make the minion very, very enduring! But that's probably not that bad.

Well, it only makes the minion very enduring vs. automatic damage... They still die if anyone actually devotes any attention whatsoever to them.