Spellbooks as scrolls

[irdeggman]

It is the spell's original casting time, as clarified (or rather, superseded) by rules compendium.

Whether you can get the scroll out in time however, is another matter altogether...

Nope it is a standard action regardless of the spell's original casting time.

Spell Compendium specifically addresses swift/immediate action spells on scrolls.

IIRC the rules compendium is consistent with that ruling.

In essence a swift action scroll is pretty much useless - it still takes a standard action to use.

Edit:

The Rules Compendium does state it is the casting time of the spell but the Spell Compendium has a specific paragraph talking about swift and immediate action spells and activating items containing those spells.


"Activating a spell trigger item, or drinking a potion is a standard action even if the spell from which the scroll, potion, or item is made can be cast as a swift action."

A tad more specific then the rules compendium which, IMO, missed this part and was specifically written to address those 1 round casting time spells.

 

[Delta]

I had the memory in the back of my head that some 3.x book says that one can use pages from a wizard's spellbook as scrolls (rip them out and cast). I checked all books available to me without any clue hinting to this rule. So did I have mixed up rules from other RPGs or (A)D&D editions or did I just miss the right book/paragraph???

That's from AD&D 1E Unearthed Arcana, p. 80:

Casting spells directly from books
In extremis, the DM may allow a magic-user to cast a spell directly
from any sort of spell book just as if the book were a scroll...

 

[Noumenon]

I once posted a thread about casting times out of wands and scrolls here. But I'm a little confused anyway.

 

[roguerouge]

As a DM, I've been fine with letting spell books serve as scrolls in parties without sorcerers. If your party doesn't contain someone with a nose for business, it should be fine.

 

[irdeggman]

As a DM, I've been fine with letting spell books serve as scrolls in parties without sorcerers. If your party doesn't contain someone with a nose for business, it should be fine.

Then the writing vanishes when cast correct?

Since that is what happens to a scroll.

 

[roguerouge]

Yep. It functions like a binder for scrolls, if you will.

 

[irdeggman]

Yep. It functions like a binder for scrolls, if you will.

Does the wizard have to pay xp to scribe spells into his spellbook (like he would onto a scroll)?

I believe the gp cost to scribe a spell into a spellbook is higher than the gp cost for scribing a scroll - so maybe that is your "equalizer".

 

[Jack Simth]

Does the wizard have to pay xp to scribe spells into his spellbook (like he would onto a scroll)?

I believe the gp cost to scribe a spell into a spellbook is higher than the gp cost for scribing a scroll - so maybe that is your "equalizer".

A spell in a spellbook costs 100 gp/page (for mundane spellbooks - don't even think about how little it costs with a Baccob's Blessed Book, if you're doing this)
A spell in a scroll markets at spell level * caster level * 25 gp.

For a 1st level spell, the scroll is much less expensive.

For a 3rd level spell, the book is 300 gp, the scroll, 375 gp.

 

[irdeggman]

A spell in a spellbook costs 100 gp/page (for mundane spellbooks - don't even think about how little it costs with a Baccob's Blessed Book, if you're doing this)
A spell in a scroll markets at spell level * caster level * 25 gp.

For a 1st level spell, the scroll is much less expensive.

For a 3rd level spell, the book is 300 gp, the scroll, 375 gp.

"Base" price of a scroll is SL x CL x 25 gp.

The material costs of this are 1/2 of that number.

So a 3rd level spell (at 5th level caster) costs 300 gp (for spellbook) and (5 x 3 x 25)/2 = 187.5 gp not 375 gp. So I'm thinking that it stays "much" cheaper for scrolls than spellbooks until much higher CL and SL combinations.

 

[Jack Simth]

"Base" price of a scroll is SL x CL x 25 gp.

The material costs of this are 1/2 of that number.

So a 3rd level spell (at 5th level caster) costs 300 gp (for spellbook) and (5 x 3 x 25)/2 = 187.5 gp not 375 gp. So I'm thinking that it stays "much" cheaper for scrolls than spellbooks until much higher CL and SL combinations.

Hence the use of "Markets at"
And don't forget the XP cost.

At 4th level scrolls, the market is 4*7*25=700 gp - cost to create, 350 gp and 28 xp. A 4 page spell in a spellbook is 400 gp.

At 5th level, the market for a scroll is 5*9*25=1,125 - cost to create, 562.5 gp and 45 xp. Plus it multiple days (as it's over 1,000 gp in base price). Scribing a 5th level spell into a traditional spellbook costs 500 gp, and one day.

Scrolls are quadratic, spellbooks are linear. Scrolls will eventually exceed spellbooks in cost - always.

For the crazy-low costs, look at a Baccob's Blessed Book - market cost 12,500 gp (creation costs 6,250 and 500 xp), but it's got 1,000 pages worth of spells to write in, with no materials cost for the writing. That's 12.5 gp market per page, or 6.25 gp and 0.5 xp (assuming, for the moment, that invoking a spell directly from the book actually destroys the page so it can't be re-scribed later). A 1st level spell in a Baccobs Blessed Book takes only a single page - costing 12.5 gp market, 6.25 gp to craft, vs. the scroll's 25 gp market and 12.5 gp crafting cost.

There's a reason that casting from spellbooks directly is not included in the 3.5 ruleset.