Your character died. Big deal.

[Mallus]

This ain't no writer's workshop.

Yes, we know that.

The rest of us will be playing the game and, as a game, that means there's a chance to fail.

Yes, we know that, too. What you seem to be missing is that (for some folks) the chance for character failure can exist even without the chance for character death.

The problem, I think, is this idea of "If I die, I LOSE THE GAME."

That's not true for me or anyone in my group.

So, just like someone else in this thread, dying gives me the chance to bring in more cool ideas.

I have fewer really cool ideas. However, the ones I do have are fairly remarkable.

You know, for a group that says "Don't take fantasy seriously," you sure do take your fantasy characters seriously ;p

How do you figure?

 

[Mallus]

Okay, I have a quick question for those who ascribe to the "green light" character death philosophy... does this apply to any of the DM's NPC's?

It only applies to PC's.

 

[Imaro]

It only applies to PC's.

Wow...this is like some kind of bizzaro-reverse-engineering-railroading...why is the story a player wants to tell ("The Chronicles of Grug the Barbarian") more important than the one a DM wants to tell ("The Battles Against Nerak the Necromancer")?

 

[The Little Raven]

The idea that someone needs to give the green light before having their character killed is a bizarre and alien one to me.

It's kinda strange to me, too.

Every since I began playing, when you bring a character into a campaign, there's an implicit understanding that you are putting that character at risk of death, dismemberment or worse, and the only way to keep them safe and unblemished is to retire them.

Personally, I LOVE dying.

While I wouldn't say I love it, I've made several characters that have a finite story arc that usually culminates in death (I'm a sucker for heroic speeches + sacrifice).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The idea that someone needs to give the green light before having their character killed is a bizarre and alien one to me. This ain't no writer's workshop. If you want to tell the story about your hero's epic quest, then head on over to fanfiction.net. The rest of us will be playing the game and, as a game, that means there's a chance to fail.

1) Death is not equal to failure and failure is not equal to death
2) I like this badwrongfun type of gaming. (Despite not actually doing this, aside from the aforementioned Torg method - of course, in a way it seems opposite, because it _guarantees_ death - but the important part is that it guarantees a meaningful death!)

The problem, I think, is this idea of "If I die, I LOSE THE GAME." Personally, I LOVE dying. It's very often that, not long after character creation, I get that perfectly timed "Oh wait, this idea is MUCH MORE AWESOME!" So, just like someone else in this thread, dying gives me the chance to bring in more cool ideas.

Of course, you know, you could just retire your character if you found a new concept you'd like to try. Or raise the death flag more often. Or play the martyr card to guarantee a "cool" character exit.

You know, for a group that says "Don't take fantasy seriously," you sure do take your fantasy characters seriously ;p

It's all about the fun in using the game to tell a compelling story. It's not about seriousness, it is about achieving the player goals of playing the game. Which can be a lot. Fun, of course, is serious business.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I recently read a post by someone describing his campaing. In every fight, the DM signals the players if the "Death Flag" is on or off, meaning if random, non-player-initiatied death of a character is a possibility. It is clearly a concept which emphasizes the story-side of players and characers - some people simply like some kind of control about the narrative their char is in without being a DM. Especially about the way a narrative is going to end.

Though i do not use a system like that, it sure sounds interesting to me. And i didn´t want to deprive anybody in this thread of the chance to ridicule this playstyle as too soft.
So i thought i´d mention it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wow...this is like some kind of bizzaro-reverse-engineering-railroading...why is the story a player wants to tell ("The Chronicles of Grug the Barbarian") more important than the one a DM wants to tell ("The Battles Against Nerak the Necromancer")?

In most games, the DM still is a final arbiter and has power going beyond the scope of the strict rules. If a DM doesn't want an NPC to die, he can do that pretty easily. If you believe DMs can't cheat, they don't neath death flags. If you believe DMs can cheat, they might want death flags, too.

 

[Angrydad]

In a recent Gameday game, one PC got petrified when fighting a basilisk ten minutes in. They had later considered using his body as an anchor point for a rope bridge, but opted against it.

Towards the end of the scenario, they freed from slaves from a slaver stronghold. They told the slaves, "..we've cleared the way out. Take this tunnel, turn left, go over the plank bridge with the rope across it, and keep heading south until you find the open secret door. If you see a statue of a fighter with a big axe and a dead lizard carcass, you've gone too far."

That reminds me of my brother's insane half-elf, Tyrus Onesimus. He was the defacto party leader (disagree with him and his alter ego will humiliate/destroy you), and managed to get petrified by a basilisk despite needing to roll not-a-1. Then, when the party tried to revive him with a Stone to Flesh spell he once again needed to roll not-a-1 and failed. It was an epic way to go out. I've had villains in that campaign go out in simliar fashion. A CR 23 lich that I designed as a BBEG ended up disintegrated in the second round of combat by the NPC wizard. SR was overcome, the lich needed to roll not-a-1 but failed. Hilariously karmic.

 

[justanobody]

Pretty much, yes.

HAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's just silly. When you sit down to play, that is one of the possibilities of the game, otherwise there is no point in having any sort of combat or injury if you cannot die at any time without your own consent.

PvP may not always be flagged as "on", but the DM does NOT need your permission for your character to die.

If I met someone in a game claiming they didn't give their permission to have their character die, then the game would end, because I would be laughing so hard someone would have to call an ambulance for me to get oxygen so I didn't suffocate.

That sort of thing would be no fun at all because there is never any risk to any action.

Is it April 1st already?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The idea that someone needs to give the green light before having their character killed is a bizarre and alien one to me. This ain't no writer's workshop. If you want to tell the story about your hero's epic quest, then head on over to fanfiction.net. The rest of us will be playing the game and, as a game, that means there's a chance to fail.

This is pretty much how I feel.

I mean it's a valid playstyle I guess, just not one the I've ever run into or one that I'd be interested in at all.

If you have a group that's more interested in crafting an adventure novel before actually having an adventure that's cool. I've personally found that the more interesting stories come AFTER the adventure and all sorts of unexpected occurrences have happened including character death and dismemberment.

Every has some sort of attachment to a character whether it's because of the potential of the character or things that have happened in game and accomplishments of the character and what not. But the ability to let that character go is more important than the attachment, it's the difference between being percived as a good / decent roleplayer and a freak. A good/decent role-player is going wish the character hadnt died, but is going to accept that it is in fact just a character and either take a break or create a new character. The other type is going to get upset, cry, get angry at the DM or angry at his fellow players (although in some cases he/she might actually be justified in feeling that way...) and overall be a drama queen or king about it. IMHO of course.

Personally when, I'm playing a PC and I get even the inkling that there's a good chance that the character is in a situation where they might bite it, Im already thinking of a way my next character can still be involved in the game and the story. Either from the present character's back story or the story of one of the NPC's or even one of the other players. I try to keep it moving forward not be bogged down by character death. I appreciate a good story like the rest of you, I just don't find the fun in trying to void character deaths before hand.

The solution? Play with a group of people who feel as you do about the game and how it should be played.