Cantrips and Wizard Multiclassing

[Zinovia]

My warlord player is interested in multiclassing to wizard, and one of the features he'd love to pick up is the ability to cast cantrips. I tend to agree with him that it is a bit silly that you can burn a feat to learn a powerful wizard spell, but you can never learn to cast a few cantrips.

I did a search on the forums looking for some house rules regarding that, but aside from some cases where they are rewriting the entire concept of multiclassing, was unable to find a rule I could steal. Have other DM's house ruled some kind of feat, or change in the Arcane Initiate feat itself that might allow the use of the wizard cantrips? How has it worked for you? Does it feel unbalanced compared to the other multiclass feats?

The possibilities that I see are to:
1) Modify Arcane Initiate to grant the cantrips as a multiclass wizard feature in addition to the other benefits of the feat. This may be overpowered compared to the other multiclass feats. Maybe not though, as the cantrips are all minor (but useful) spells.

2) Modify Arcane Initiate so that instead of a Wizard at-will power you can use once per encounter, you gain the use of the cantrips at-will. You trade your 1/encounter Scorching Burst for cantrips. It seems more balanced than adding the cantrips on top of the rest, but does take away one of the big advantages to taking Arcane Initiate.

3) Create one or more feats that let you learn the cantrips separately, either 1 feat for all 4, or 2 for each feat spent, or only 1 for each feat spent. This feat would have Arcane Initiate as a prerequisite.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Drkfathr1]

I would go with either option 2 or 3.

With option 3, I would just say 1 feat for all 4, with Arcane Initiate as the prerequisite. They are more utilitarian than anything else, and honestly, not that overpowering.

I'll be surprised if we don't eventually see more multi-class feats that allow characters to pick up more of the class features of others.

 

[Engilbrand]

There's an item in the Adventurer's Vault that allows you to use cantrips.
Why not just tack the player's choice of a cantrip onto each of the Wizard multiclass feats?

 

[Stalker0]

I like option 2. While cantrips aren't as powerful as a 1/encounter wizard power, they can be a heck of a lot of fun.

 

[Zinovia]

I like option 2. While cantrips aren't as powerful as a 1/encounter wizard power, they can be a heck of a lot of fun.

I agree, especially in the hands of someone who can use them creatively. I tend to like that option as well.

Do you think it would be too powerful to allow another feat to pick up that 1/encounter wizard power after the fact, or should I make people choose to have one or the other and stick with it? I tend to think if offered the choice, my player will take the cantrips over the 1/encounter wizard at-will, but he'd love to be able to pick up both if I let him.

 

[Turtlejay]

Are you sure you want to keep them at will? None of the other multiclass feats grant an at will, they all move the granted ability up the chain one notch

at will--->encounter--->daily

Perhaps allow the player to use each one once an encounter in place of the combat power?

Jay

 

[Stogoe]

If I could be persuaded to give cantrips away at all, I'd modify option 2: In exchange for Scorching Burst 1/encounter, you can have one cantrip, 1/encounter.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Encounter vs At-Will really would make very, very little difference for Cantrips. They're not terribly useful in combat besides some really creative situations. Their main use, in my experience, has been to do some fun, creative role-playing.

 

[Kreaf]

I did it like Stogoe suggested. Instead of the attack power the player got one of the cantrips 1/encounter and he is happy with it.
And the limitation to 1/encounter is not only importend for combats. It also says that he can cast it only one time every 5 minutes. Therefor no wizardsshow at an inn or such things.

 

[Verision]

Multiclass II feats.

Something like this came up in my group and I wrote up a "II" feats for all the multiclass feats. My "Arcane Initiate II" feat gave all the cantrips as Encounter powers, but when I made a thread about it (both here and at WotC) most people said that the cantrips should just be at-will.
I dont' see the encounter/at-will debate to be so much a balance issue as a flavor issue (I.E. In 4e if you are a fighter/wizard you are a fighter first and a wizard second; so why should you be able to cast cantrips as well as a wizard?)


Anywho, I'll post my feats here; maybe that'll help you.

Initiate of the Faith II
Prerequisite: Initiate of the Faith
Benefit: You can use the cleric's healing word ability once per encounter

Student of the Sword II
Prerequisite: Student of the Sword
Benefit: An enemy struck by your attack of opportunity stops moving if a move provoked the attack of opportunity.

Soldier of the Faith II
Prerequisite: Soldier of the Faith
Benefit: You can use the paladin's divine challenge power twice per encounter

Warrior of the Wild II
Prerequisite: Warrior of the Wild
Benefit: You can use the ranger's Hunter's Quarry class feature twice per encounter. The target you mark as your quarry remains your quarry until the end of your next turn.

Sneak of Shadows II
Prerequisite: Sneak of Shadows
Benefit: You can use the rogue's Sneak Attack class feature twice per encounter

Pact Initiate II
Prerequisite: Pact Initiate
Benefit: Once per encounter you can use the warlock's curse class feature. The target you set your curse on remains cursed until the end of your next turn.

Student of Battle II
Prerequisite: Student of Battle
Benefit: You can use the warlord's Inspiring Word power once per encounter.

Arcane Initiate II
Prerequisite: Arcane Initiate
Benefit: Gain the use of all the wizard's cantrips.


Note: I think these feats need a level requirement to make them balanced, but I havn't decided what they should be (partially because the PCs in my group that were going to multiclass changed their minds which made me lose interest).