D&D General Does Lessons of the First One -> Magic Initiate count as Warlock spells?

[Zardnaar]

Definitely a “no” for that one. Wording is pretty clear in both the feat descriptions and the warlock abilities that do grant warlock spells. If it doesn’t say “counts as a warlock spell to you” it ain’t a warlock spell.

Doesn't matter mist of the time. Every now and then it does.

Spells via feats and races don't seem to be xyz spells generally.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Doesn't matter mist of the time. Every now and then it does.

There are a number of 2024 warlock abilities that specify warlock spell. Edit: Agonising Blast, Eldritch Spear, Repelling Blast.

Spells via feats and races don't seem to be xyz spells generally.

Indeed. Even cleric initiate spells do not count as cleric spells if you get them that way.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are a number of 2024 warlock abilities that specify warlock spell.

Indeed. Even cleric initiate spells do not count as cleric spells if you get them that way.

Im swate most of the time it doesn't matter. Sometimes it does often class features.

 

[FarBeyondC]

Sure, but that uses Cha.

Studying occult lore, you learn one Eldritch Invocation option of your choice from the warlock class. Your spellcasting ability for the invocation is Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma (choose when you select this feat). If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you're a warlock who meets the prerequisite.

Whenever you gain a level, you can replace the invocation with another one from the warlock class.

I'm under the impression that the bolded would let you change the stat used for the spells gained, because otherwise it's a defunct part of the feat.

 

[mellored]

Definitely a “no” for that one. Wording is pretty clear in both the feat descriptions and the warlock abilities that do grant warlock spells. If it doesn’t say “counts as a warlock spell to you” it ain’t a warlock spell.

It says it at the beginning of each caster class.

"If another Warlock feature gives spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells on the list you prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you."

And Invocation are clearly warlock feature. And all the other invocation don't specifically say it.

I.e. Mask of Many Faces: You can cast Disguise Self without expending a spell slot.

The question is. Does Lessons of the First One "give spells that are always prepared"?

Indeed. Even cleric initiate spells do not count as cleric spells if you get them that way.

Spells via feats and races don't seem to be xyz spells generally.

Magic Initiate from your background isn't a class features. Nor would the one from your race. So I agree they don't usually count as any class.

 

[mellored]

I.e. Mask of Many Faces: You can cast Disguise Self without expending a spell slot.

Seems I was wrong.

The rule about things being warlocks spells only applies to "always prepared" spells.

So i guess technically, Mask or Many Faces does not count as a Warlock Spell since it is not always prepared. Also you can't cast it with a spell slot.

Which also rules out ALL extra cantrips gained by other class features unless explicitly stated. (Which it does for Rangers).


That still leaves the the question open for the 1st level spell. Lessons of the First One to get Sleep as a warlock spell, then use GOO 3 to cast it without a verbal component.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So you ask if it is transitive?

I would say, probably no. On the other hand, I probably would allow it anyway.

 

[mellored]

So you ask if it is transitive?

I would say, probably no. On the other hand, I probably would allow it anyway.

Yea. That seems to be the consensus.

Not that I had a build in mind. Especially since Tome gets you any invocation anyways.

Just kind of ran across it.