OSR What is OSRIC and Hackmaster

[StylinLP]

Could someone spell out the differance between OSRIC and Hackmaster? I see both are AD&D faithfully. I'm a tad confused. I see what Castles and Crusaders is. THe d20 system is a deal breaker for me. I thought I saw what Rules Encyplapedia is. Basic and Expert D&D full up to date version of that series of game systems.
My players and I are trying to figure out which gaming system to use for our new campaign. I flat out refuse to run 3.5e or 4e. augh.
I got to thinking about this question after reading that other thread by that guy wanting to create a new 2.0 game. Why would someone want to make another Hackmaster or OSRIC? Is there something I'm missing here?
What are the reasons why some people do not like to play OSRIC or Hackmaster? What is the low down.

 

[justanobody]

OSRIC is like an OGL AD&D, while HACKMASTER was a license use of the official AD&D material.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

OSRIC is essentially 1e.

Hackmaster starts with an AD&Dish base and adds on to it, and also includes humorous or satirical elements. I find that the "humor" gets in the way of my enjoyment. More importantly, despite a 1e-ish presentation, I find that Hackmaster's rules tend to have more in common with 2e AD&D than with 1e AD&D, and I much prefer 1e.

 

[Nikosandros]

OSRIC is like an OGL AD&D, while HACKMASTER was a license use of the official AD&D material.

Yes they had a license, but they changed and added a lot. OSRIC is much closer to AD&D.

 

[StylinLP]

So, since OSRIC is essentially 1e. It's pretty much a Rules Cyclopedia for 1e? Where Rules Clyclepedia is for Basic/Expert Box Sets?
When people say they rather play 1e, they pretty much use OSRIC?
I was looking over OSRIC and see that OSCRIC2 is coming out. WHy the new version and whats the differance.

Hackmaster is a modified version of 1e/2e you say? If you ignore the humour its still a modified version? From looking over their website and downloads I see some differances. Differances I remember in 2e. Comliness, Fame, MagicUser specialists charts, Cleric specialists. Hackmaster seems very close to being the same game. Looks like anyone could run any 1e/2e modules with it with no preperation. I have not read the ruleset yet. Just recently I've been reading 1e again, a real eye opener after all these years. Hard to have a conversation with someone about that subject unless they have reread those books again lately. NExt step will be to reread 2e core books and see the dramatic differances.

Isn't Wizards & Sorcery 1e?

 

[hellbender]

Isn't Wizards & Sorcery 1e?

Swords & Wizardry is actually 0E (the 1974 rules):Index

Labyrinth Lord is like Basic/Expert Labyrinth Lord

The Basic Fantasy RPG is a bit like Basic/Expert and 1E:
Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game

And OSRIC (now close to v2) is essentially 1e OSRIC


Many of the aspects of these games are interchangeable and the games are all quite simple to run and to play in, there are also a lot of either free or inexpensive add-ons to expand your game with. I believe that Dan (Labyrinth Lord) Proctor's "more story, less rules" logo in one of his Scribe of Orcus magazines neatly sums up all of these games.

Ultimately, any game that you and your group enjoys is the best game out there, but the core rules for all of these are available for free as .pdfs and I encourage anyone curious to check them out, you might be pleasantly surprised.

edit: spelling

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

So, since OSRIC is essentially 1e. It's pretty much a Rules Cyclopedia for 1e?

Not in the case of the current release (i.e. OSRIC 1). That's more abbreviated (for example, there are no monsters); it was intended more as a reference document for publishing than as a complete set of rules for play (the AD&D books were envisioned as being the primary rules used at the table). OSRIC 2 is the release that includes everything for "at table" play, and is more of a "complete" 1e system, much like the Rules Cyclopedia is a "complete basic/expert/etc" system in a single book.

Where Rules Clyclepedia is for Basic/Expert Box Sets?

Correct. The Rules Cyclopedia collects the rules from the Mentzer-edited Basic, Expert, Companion, and Masters sets. It's not a "clone," though, it's the out-of-print old game, itself. Labyrinth Lord is a basic/expert clone.

When people say they rather play 1e, they pretty much use OSRIC?

Not necessarily. Most people who say they play 1e are playing 1e AD&D. Note, however, OSRIC modules and supplements work seamlessly with the AD&D core books, and some people might be using OSRIC as a rules reference, too.) There might be some people using the OSRIC rules as their primary source for a 1e game, but I think they are a minority.

Hackmaster is a modified version of 1e/2e you say? If you ignore the humour its still a modified version?

Yes. It's like 2e on steroids with a lot of house rules (hp kicker, critical hits, skills, talents, flaws, et cetera).

Isn't Wizards & Sorcery 1e?

You mean Swords & Wizardry? No, it's not a clone of 1e, it's a clone of the original "0e:" specifically the 1974 rules + additional rules from the supplements. However, Swords & Wizardry adventures and supplements would also work pretty seamlessly in a 1e game.

 

[StylinLP]

Thank you all for the clear concise explanations! I now have a firm grouding of all these games. It was a tad confusing. My players are settling for 2e since I refuse to run 3.5
Wish there was a re-issue condense updates version of 2e.

 

[justanobody]

Thank you all for the clear concise explanations! I now have a firm grouding of all these games. It was a tad confusing. My players are settling for 2e since I refuse to run 3.5
Wish there was a re-issue condense updates version of 2e.

You mean like the "Rules Cyclopedia", but for 2nd edition?

If so you are in luck if you don't want to use the OSRIC or Hackmaster to play.

Find AD&D Core Rules 2.0 CD-ROM.

It has a massive library of books in HTML and windows help format that you can just read, and for most things it will help with making characters, monsters, etc.

It was the best so far commercial D&D software made even with its faults.

You can also get many of the books on PDF from RPGnow

 

[StylinLP]

Yes, I actually have that on CD right now in front of me. Back in the day we used it. But it's been so long I can't remember anything about it or how useful it was or what it exactly covered. Does Wizards have the latest download for free? Since this is available then how come that other thread is posting questions on what one would do if a 3rd party re-released 2.0 but better. Like Rules Cyclopedia?