So...How are Sales of 4E Product?

[dmccoy1693]

Brother ... pulling up data from the USA today, ... completely useless. Comparing it like that would mean the following assumptions (and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head):

• The total size of the book market are identical for all time periods (which they are not).
• Economic conditions for all time periods are identical (which they are not).
• Harry Potter, LotR, Spiderman and others never skewed or even influenced the market.
• People were passing on role playing to the next generation in identical proportions.
• People's interest in fantasy vs sci-fi never waxed or waned.

I can go on and on but I think you get the point. This is really crazy that this discussion has gone on this long. mshea really hit the nail on the head, this is nothing but a giant edition war taking a different form and we should all just go back to gaming.

And to help bridge some kind of gap, While I will probably never consider playing 4E for myself, I can definitely see me using it to introduce my daughter to RPGs in a few years. 3E is just to complex for her she'll give up before she even gives it a try, but 4E sounds about her speed. If this was one of the design goals of 4E, then I handily applaud WotC.

 

[darjr]

The 4e gift set was as good as the 3.5 PHB. And almost as good as 3.0... almost makes me wish they didn't have a gift set so we could see a direct comparison.

 

[Jack99]

Looks like 3.0 was the best for the available data.

Sure, if you ignore the 4e gift set, which seems to be like half of 4e sales.

 

[Jack99]

I can go on and on but I think you get the point. This is really crazy that this discussion has gone on this long. mshea really hit the nail on the head, this is nothing but a giant edition war taking a different form and we should all just go back to gaming.

Aye, it is. And I am out now.

Cheers

 

[darjr]

Sure, if you ignore the 4e gift set, which seems to be like half of 4e sales.

This.

And, again, I'm not fighting an edition war.

I'm interested in the health of the hobby and cutting through all the smoke and mirrors.

 

[Delta]

Delta, you are right: As far as I can see, the number of official claims that 4E has outsold all prior editions is zero. I don't recall any unofficial claims that 4E has outsold all prior editions, but if there have been any such claims, I doubt they have any foundation. So we can put that one to rest.

As for any opportunity I have had to compare 4E to 1E, well, there are two problems there. First of all, I hope I've been clear that I don't work at WotC anymore. I may be pretty well informed, but I don't know the numbers on 4E. Second, I've always pointed out that the 1E data is sketchy at best. So rather than "scrupulously avoiding" anything related to 1E, for years I've always clearly gone the "don't know" route in regards to sales comparisons to early editions.

Finally, why is comparison of PHB sales between 1E and 4E even being discussed? The business models are so different over that 30-year span that comparing the sales of a single title, even the PHB, is pretty meaningless.

I think your personal theory is spot on. 4E has sold a lot of books, and in its first four months has probably not outsold an indeterminate span of 1E books.

Charles, thanks for the input. It's quite appreciated.

 

[dmccoy1693]

The way I see the Amazon sales ranking is that all those sales through Amazon means that FLGSs are not getting those sales. Since Amazon sells them at such a giant discount, WotC makes less of each sale, whoever distributes between WotC and amazon make less off each sale.

So the way I see it, high sales figures for Amazon is bad for the industry as a whole.

 

[Fifth Element]

Since Amazon sells them at such a giant discount, WotC makes less of each sale, whoever distributes between WotC and amazon make less off each sale.

I don't think you quite understand how the supply chain works. A retailer's sale price has no effect on how much they pay for the inventory in the first place.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Brother ... pulling up data from the USA today, ... completely useless. Comparing it like that would mean the following assumptions (and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head):

• The total size of the book market are identical for all time periods (which they are not).
• Economic conditions for all time periods are identical (which they are not).
• Harry Potter, LotR, Spiderman and others never skewed or even influenced the market.
• People were passing on role playing to the next generation in identical proportions.
• People's interest in fantasy vs sci-fi never waxed or waned.

I can go on and on but I think you get the point.

Hmm. I can just conclude that we can't compare at all, right? Because there is no list that will give us all these informations and make an absolutely correct and fair comparison.

And to help bridge some kind of gap, While I will probably never consider playing 4E for myself, I can definitely see me using it to introduce my daughter to RPGs in a few years. 3E is just to complex for her she'll give up before she even gives it a try, but 4E sounds about her speed. If this was one of the design goals of 4E, then I handily applaud WotC.

I think that was definitely one of the design goals. Well, not your daughter specifically (I think), but...

 

[rounser]

Do you still call it a war when it is one-sided ambushes and attacks? I thought that was terrorism..

I disagree. When conducted on opposing soldiers, that sounds more like guerilla warfare, the kind of thing conducted by real world warlords.

(No relation to the entirely-inappropriate-for-the-core 4E class of the same name which ridiculously attempts to redefine the currently-in-use-in-the-headlines term, nevermind the absurdity of a first level warlord, or of Conanesque heroes taking orders from some upstart who somehow doesn't receive a sword in the belly in the second round from allies appalled at his hubris, as he richly deserves to.)