Word of Mearls: Official Player races will not get Oversized Weapons. Forked Thread

[Doctor Proctor]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but one of the Epic Destinies in the Martial Power book allows for the use of oversized weapons. I think that this was part of the reason that it was eliminated as well...because it begs the question of "If I have a Minotaur Fighter with oversize and then I take the Eternal Defender Epic Destiny that allows you to use oversized weapons, can I move up two die tiers?"

To my knowledge, the oversized feature hasn't been removed from this Epic Destiny (although it could be errata'd right after coming out), which would mean you still have the option to go for it. It's just at the Epic tier of play, which would make it a lot easier to deal with. When you have it as part of a class feature, it's available from level 1, and this makes it a lot harder to balance.

 

[Runestar]

If oversized breaks brutal, why not just rework brutal, rather than oversized? Is it such a big deal to be able to reroll any 1s or 2s you roll, that brutal's inclusion as is must stay no matter what? After all, it is simply the mathematical equivalent to an extra 2 points of damage.

Saying that an ability has to be removed just because it interacts poorly with a new splatbook material seems counter-intuitive.

as the characters they end up having are more powerful, but maybe it's a lower level viewpoint (5-12 range) and maybe the players are not picking weak races (well, they definately are not picking weak races but that's normal usually)

Hmm...odd, I never felt they were stronger than core races, but maybe because my group runs fairly optimized PCs to begin with. Still, that ghaele PC was a blast to play. Ah...fun times...

 

[DracoSuave]

Saying that an ability has to be removed just because it interacts poorly with a new splatbook material seems counter-intuitive.

Oversized Weapon was questionable before Brutal came out. Brutal just made the question have a more definate answer. Saying an ability that is meant for NPCs needs to be preserved for PCs' use despite material being overpowered with it is counter-intuitive.

 

[Runestar]

Saying an ability that is meant for NPCs needs to be preserved for PCs' use despite material being overpowered with it is counter-intuitive.

Well, for starters, I don't quite believe that they would forget to give an NPC kobold darkvision (which is what you would get if you used the MM kobold race to create an npc).

I still believe that the races were meant for PC usage right from the very start. That clause was probably inserted at the last minute as some sort of excuse to cover their backsides (eg: if a race did turn out to be overpowered, they could simply say "I told you so"). It sounds so patronizing that I don't believe for a moment their excuse about those races being npc-only.

 

[James McMurray]

Well, for starters, I don't quite believe that they would forget to give an NPC kobold darkvision (which is what you would get if you used the MM kobold race to create an npc).

I still believe that the races were meant for PC usage right from the very start. That clause was probably inserted at the last minute as some sort of excuse to cover their backsides (eg: if a race did turn out to be overpowered, they could simply say "I told you so"). It sounds so patronizing that I don't believe for a moment their excuse about those races being npc-only.

Oh, definitely. I mean, if they'd actually said in the MM that the races were intended for creating NPCs and that DMs should carefully consider whether to use them or not, then I'd believe them now.

Oh... wait...

 

[77IM]

This information can also be used as guidelines for creating player character (PC) versions of these creatures, within reason. Note that these traits and powers are more in line with monster powers than with player character powers.
...
The DM should carefully consider which monster races, if any, to allow as PCs in his or her campaign.

That seems pretty clear to me. I don't buy the "I thought 'no' meant 'yes'" argument. Even when the designers were telling people to use the gnome stats in the MM, they depicted these stats as a stop-gap measure until the real gnome stats could be released.

D&D rules are not scientific laws or sacred gospel -- they are guidelines that the DM needs to interpret and adjust as needed. 4e has done a pretty good job explaining the rationale for various rules to help the DM make good decisions, and the above statements from the MM tell me: "These monster racial stats are a rough draft. Use at your own risk."

Getting upset over the massive Stealth errata or the totally broken Skill Challenge system seems reasonable to me, but the half-baked monster races? in the appendix? We should have all seen this one coming.

-- 77IM

 

[Imban]

Getting upset over the massive Stealth errata

Well, at least the Stealth errata wasn't stealth errata.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, for starters, I don't quite believe that they would forget to give an NPC kobold darkvision (which is what you would get if you used the MM kobold race to create an npc).

I still believe that the races were meant for PC usage right from the very start. That clause was probably inserted at the last minute as some sort of excuse to cover their backsides (eg: if a race did turn out to be overpowered, they could simply say "I told you so"). It sounds so patronizing that I don't believe for a moment their excuse about those races being npc-only.

You are free to believe what you will.

Said belief is irrational in the face of presented evidence, but you are free to believe as you will.

 

[Runestar]

Well then, if the monster races were indeed meant for npc creation, then can someone enlighten me as to why the heck they did not give the kobold darkvision?

 

[Squizzle]

Well then, if the monster races were indeed meant for npc creation, then can someone enlighten me as to why the heck they did not give the kobold darkvision?

Since all you need to generate new monstrous NPCs is a good look at the stat blocks of existing members of that monstrous race, I took the appendix write-ups as rough draft PC race stat blocks, obviously not playtested (or, in many cases, even finished), but there as a sort of "Here's what we have so far; feel free to run with it. Subject to revision" to allow people to play a wider variety of races until a good inventory of them built up in the published materials.