Bladeless Swordmage

[DracoSuave]

OF course, there's also the argument of just taking the stats of a heavy blade and re-flavoring it as an axe or hammer, but treating it as a blade for the purposes of feats and powers and implement use. I mean, it's only -flavor- you're after....

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Thanks for all of the response!

I'd say that if you took away proficiency in military light and heavy blades, gave them proficiency in one other group of military weapons, and then just replaced any reference to blades in their class features or powers with the new weapon type, it would be fine and not broken at all.

That's what I was thinking. Removing the blades and replace it with a warhammer proficiency.

There are a few other issues though. First, the only reach weapons with +3 prof are non-blades, and each weapon group has associated feats and magic weapon types. Axes are probably the best example, as it gives you high crit property. The increased push ability for spears can come into effect, etc.

Either way, it's something that may not be a big deal as a houserule, but it does seem like part of the reasoning isn't just flavor. One note ... your only choice of heavy thrown weapon you initially have proficiency in is the javelin ... while axe/hammer prof would let you have. You are a bit better than the average defender, but you still have little in the way of ranged attack power, so it would come up. Just making sure people keep in mind all the points if they choose to go the route.

The biggest unintentional issue might be in magic items. You still have the properties when an item is used as an implement, so there may be powers you can't get on a blade that have quirky interactions with swordmage implement powers.

All good points. These are the things that I wasn't sure about balance wise. The last thing I want to do is break the balance when I'm really just interested in flavor. Which leads to DracoSuave's comment...

OF course, there's also the argument of just taking the stats of a heavy blade and re-flavoring it as an axe or hammer, but treating it as a blade for the purposes of feats and powers and implement use. I mean, it's only -flavor- you're after....

That's what I was thinking of too, in case there was a balance issue. Sometimes I get hung up on the image of a character and don't care as much about the mechanics. This is a great solution to making the character appear as they do in my mind.

 

[knightofround]

Yeah I'd say that a Swordmage who replaces blades with another weapon group should be fine. It has both upsides and downsides.

The downside is that as a semi-controller class, so making sure they have a high +attack is more important than a couple extra points of damage. It's much more about popping minions than it is cutting down swathes of solos and elites. And swords are the best for accuracy. Another thing to note is that SM powers have low [W] values, so the size of damage dice isn't as important as it is to other classes.

The upside is that by taking a weapon group other than weapons, they can actually, you know, pick up some decent feats for their weapon. Blades require STR and DEX. Str has very limited use to a shielding Swordmage, and investing lots of points into dex makes very little sense because INT is their primary stat and no dex-based class skills. Also, as a semi-controller class it isn't as important to have a high init, because you often want to give your allies the opportunity to move out of range of your AEs, or move enemies INTO range.

As a shielding swordmage who actually uses a sword, choosing feats is incredibly annoying. Using the base point buy its difficult to get two 13s in low-usage stats, get something decent in your primary two, and make sure your will defense/social skills don't totally suck.

If anything, Swordmages seem to do better (imho) with a Int/Con build, which would make more sense for hammers & axes. Even assault swordmages need to keep a high con because most of their AEs are PBAEs, so they often need to provoke OAs to get into position. Also, SMs start off with less healing surges than other defenders.

 

[DracoSuave]

Swordmages have no problems getting into any position they want, they have more teleports than faelocks do, for gossake.

Some swordmages base themselves around thunder-based feats rather than on weapon-stuff, btw.