Schroedinger's Wounding (Forked Thread: Disappointed in 4e)

[SteveC]

Maybe it's because RC and I have been sparring so long now... but this old news for me now.

Good point! Both of you are starting to sound like an old married couple!

Seriously, though, and something that gets lost in all of the posturing here: there are a lot of good ideas about how damage and healing work in this thread, and the basis to make a very interesting game that takes the basics of D&D and takes the game in a different direction.

--Steve

 

[Raven Crowking]

I just have to say that we've finally gotten to the crux of the matter, after how long exactly? Your experiences in this regard differ from the vast majority of D&D players.

Hmmmm.....

(1) We were at the crux of the matter at the begining. It would be highly unlikely both that my experiences in this regard differ from the "vast majority of D&D players" and that others would have the same experience re: Schroedinger's Wounding (and post to that effect) if this was "the crux of the matter". Do we all, somehow, happen to fall into the same minority? Or do we ignore that I have run/played in games with clerics, too, because doing so helps you compartmentalize and ignore the actual issues raised?

(2) I am not at all certain that you have the authority to say what the experiences of the "vast majority of D&D players" is.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Good point! Both of you are starting to sound like an old married couple!

So long as it is perfectly clear that Mustrum is the "wife".

(I kid)


RC

 

[SteveC]

(2) I am not at all certain that you have the authority to say what the experiences of the "vast majority of D&D players" is.


RC

Yes, in this case, I actually am. If you've actually played a significant amount of 3E D&D and have never seen a Cure Light Wounds wand, you're playing D&D very differently than most people. I fully expect to hear from everyone else about how they never use wands of cure light, but that isn't really how the game is played. Seriously. You can play a D20 game with little or no healing at all, but we're talking about D&D. Ready access to healing is how the vast majority of people who play D&D play the game. Frankly, if you don't see that, there is literally nothing left to say or discuss with you.

Again, your game !=badwrongfun. Just different.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Yes, in this case, I actually am. If you've actually played a significant amount of 3E D&D and have never seen a Cure Light Wounds wand, you're playing D&D very differently than most people. I fully expect to hear from everyone else about how they never use wands of cure light, but that isn't really how the game is played. Seriously. You can play a D20 game with little or no healing at all, but we're talking about D&D. Ready access to healing is how the vast majority of people who play D&D play the game. Frankly, if you don't see that, there is literally nothing left to say or discuss with you.

And you know this because..........?

See, you are attempting to argue by authority, but I am not at all certain how your saying "but that isn't really how the game is played. Seriously. You can play a D20 game with little or no healing at all, but we're talking about D&D" has any evidenciary value whatsoever.

Would you like to point out how you "know" this? Is it, for example, revealed knowledge that just popped in your brain one day? Is it the result of an InterWeb poll? Is it just how you and your friends play, that you are assuming is widespread?

If you want to argue by authority, you have to be willing to divulge the source of that authority, or accept that your argument will not be taken seriously.



RC

 

[Scribble]

Would you like to point out how you "know" this? Is it, for example, revealed knowledge that just popped in your brain one day? Is it the result of an InterWeb poll? Is it just how you and your friends play, that you are assuming is widespread?

My guess would be:

1. Paying attention to this and other boards.
2. Paying attention to what wizards says/does (as they would be in position to most know their client base's wants and needs.)
3. Paying attention at conventions and such.
4. Paying attention to your own game. (For the most part I think most groups play in a similar way. If the way your playing the game doesn't make others act in a confused fashion when you talk about that style, then you're probably pretty average.)

I think it's not really a big stretch to say most groups out there:

1. Have combat in their games a lot.
2. Use magical healing a lot.

 

[Obryn]

I think it's not really a big stretch to say most groups out there:

1. Have combat in their games a lot.
2. Use magical healing a lot.

I completely, 100% agree. I'd add on...

3. Have found a Wand of Cure Light Wounds to be an inexpensive, but invaluable, source of healing during a campaign.

Again - this is unless the DM has houseruled the magic item rules, or else runs a very low-combat or low-magic campaign.

-O

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi RC,

I understand where you're coming from, and that effectively there is no way how you could use an authoratative source that we all know doesn't exist to back this claim up.

However, it is built into the game for a group to have easy and ready access to magical (read instant) healing - unless the DM makes it difficult by choice. If you look at many of the official adventures, as well as adventures in dungeon magazine, healing wands and potions are plentiful and seem to be an expected (and in some cases needed) part of any adventuring groups resources. As such I have to agree with Scribble:

I think it's not really a big stretch to say most groups out there:

1. Have combat in their games a lot.
2. Use magical healing a lot.

However, I don't like this coming off as if it is the correct or "official" way of playing the game - there is obviously no such thing. However, I do feel it would be what the majority of groups experience.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Obryn]

However, I don't like this coming off as if it is the correct or "official" way of playing the game - there is obviously no such thing. However, I do feel it would be what the majority of groups experience.

I didn't get that at all from his statement. I think it's just a statement of fact, not the best way to play the game.

I think that asserting that most 3.x D&D groups didn't/don't regularly use magical healing from clerics, wands, and potions is rather indefensible. I'd start a poll - but sadly, ENWorld is not a representative sample of all gamers.

-O

 

[Scribble]

However, I don't like this coming off as if it is the correct or "official" way of playing the game - there is obviously no such thing. However, I do feel it would be what the majority of groups experience.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Not sure I understand quite what you mean... There's no "true" way to play the game above all others... It's kind of (in my opinion at least) one of the things thats makes RPGs great... Play them in any way your group find fun.

But what I can say is: The game needs to make some assumptions about how people are playing in order for things like "balance" and "encounter building" to work. (Or at least to give advice about said things in the books.)

If your groups playstyle differs significantly from these assumptions, then the other parts will also be different.