Pramas: Does 4E have staying power?

[malraux]

Yeah, I can see the case that the core books are inferior goods, but supplements are likely luxuries.

 

[FunkBGR]

Pramas is just sharing an opinion. It doesn't really mean anything, he's just musing. Since he isn't in the 4e boat, I don't really take it as more than just him still being skeptical of the new edition.

 

[La Bete]

Gels roughly with what thalmin said a little while ago about how things were selling.

Reasonably reliable source as well.

However.... I really, really wouldn't draw too much from this with regards to DDI/layoffs/success of 4e.

 

[Harr]

Pramas is just sharing an opinion. It doesn't really mean anything, he's just musing. Since he isn't in the 4e boat, I don't really take it as more than just him still being skeptical of the new edition.

Certain people who are in position of authority don't get to take the position of "just sharing opinion", since their opinion is viewed as more informed than most, and the sharing of it can have significant impact on people's opinions and behavior. For someone like Chris Pramas to be "just sharing opinion" is disingenuous, since he knows perfectly well (as do we) that many people will take his opinion to be either fact or indicative of the facts.

Whenever you read something like this by a person in that position your immediate mental reaction should be "Does this person have a vested interest or anything to gain by people believing this information, regardless of whether it's actually accurate or not?"

If yes, then no amount of "Oh come on you guys, it's just my opinion, I mean come on seriously, teehee!" makes it any better.

This is obviously biased viewing of data intended to promote a certain point of view. Seriously, enough of the 4e bashing, we GET IT. You don't like the product. Move along.

Exactly.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Quality and all that is fine and dandy, especially since I am a f4nboi and encountard and all. I am constantly worried that I end up being the only one playing 4E and seeing no more supplements, but I am irrational like that.

If we want to look at market success, we never get the full picture, but a question might be: How is it looking overall? Where didn't the sales drop, where did they stay at previous levels?

And yet another question what would these numbers mean for the future?
Do the stores have to close? Does WotC have to stop publishing D&D? Do they just change their strategy? Can they do anything at all? If it's not a question of quality or market acceptance, but just a question of a receding economy, is there anything they can do except to go on and hope for the best?

 

[Mallus]

All I can say is that I hope 4e has staying power, because I'm enjoying it so far. And I hope WotC fixes the GSL (how's that coming, BTW?).

 

[darjr]

eh... and around here there are game stores that sold out of martial power.
​

 

[frankthedm]

And I hope WotC fixes the GSL (how's that coming, BTW?).

Heh, I'll believe it when I see it. I am having trouble believing any new version can undo the damage done by the initial Delays & wording of the GSL.

If WotC was serious about wanting the support of third party publishers, the GSL has been a strategic failure to date. If the goal was to cull the third party market though, mission accomplished.

Sure seems that way to me.

eh... and around here there are game stores that sold out of martial power.

How many did they order in the first place? Without evidence of how many were sold at that location, being sold out is hardly an indication of success.

 

[pawsplay]

I am not a fan of 4e. But nonetheless I hope sales are fairly brisk. I think it's important that WotC do well financially, for the sake of the industry, and I think it's also important that people keep playing games and having a good time, for the sake of the hobby. I think if 4e does not pick up some more momentum, 5e may come sooner rather than later, which would also be unfortunate, but may be inevitible; 4e is the first version of an entirely new set of rules, which means entirely new problems to iron out.

The GSL situation needs to be fixed; whether Hasbro realizes it or not, they need 3pp. as the layoff reminds us, keeping a full time staff to write gaming books is financially difficult in the best of times, and almost impossible in rough times. Keeping development in house is probably not an option.

Most of the major game systems I can think of have some kind of third party support (D&D, Fudge, Runequest, savage Worlds), an active user community of tinkerers (GURPS, Hero), a magazine that takes a lot of unsolicited submissions (GURPS), or virtually nonexistent IP restrictions (various "given away" games like Marvel FASERIP, and by default, many OOP games). D&D 4e with its relatively closed system and in house magazine looks mostly like Palladium. While Palladium's longevity speaks of some kind of success, I don't think it's the best model.

4e does have something of a tinkering community already brewing, which is a good thing for 4e.

 

[billd91]

4e sold in well, and then we had ridiculous gas prices, and then in September we had an economic meltdown. We've suffered lay offs nationwide, consumer spending during that period fizzled out. So, the purchase of non-essiential like role playing suppliments suffered.

No kidding, did it really?

"Yeah, when people had money they bought stuff, now people don't have money, so they aren't buyign stuff. Obviously stuff is bad, the old stuff was better!"

Come on.

This is obviously biased viewing of data intended to promote a certain point of view. Seriously, enough of the 4e bashing, we GET IT. You don't like the product. Move along.

I'm not convinced. We were being hammered with high gas prices already when 4e came out and now the economic "experts" are saying we've been in a recession for a lot longer than anybody previously thought. Sure, there was no panicky meltdown, but it's not like things were all ducky when 4e hit the shelves either.