Pramas: Does 4E have staying power?

[Scribble]

I think 4e has a pretty interesting purchasing dynamic, mostly due to the DDI, and the compendium in particular.

I DM a 4e game. I like 4e a lot. The only books I own for it are the gift set. All the other books have looked awesome, and had a lot of awesome inside. But most of what I need, as a DM, is included in the compendium in my DDI subscription.

I don't really have a huge incentive to go out and buy any of the physical books.

Also as a DM, I feel less inclined to buy things like Martial Power, as while useful for making NPCs, the stuff in there isn't really as useful to me, as it is to a player.

I'll probably buy Manual of The Planes. I'm guessing most/all of the info in there won't hit the compendium. I also want to get a DM's screen. Just haven't gotten to the store lately.

 

[xechnao]

Yet, the only supplements I have been able to find on the same list, is the FR player's Guide and the Adventurer's Vault. If they were selling that poorly, wouldn't logic dictate that at least some 3.x supplements had found their way to the same list?

USATODAY takes account online retailers that perhaps Pramas' contact was not considering them. Also perhaps previous editions sold more supplements on hobby trade than book trade in respect say to adventurer's vault.

 

[La Bete]

The above statement assumes that 4E isn't selling well. I disagree with that assumption.

Instead of people claiming that people are buying 4e but not playing it, we're back to claiming 4e isn't selling? interesting....

 

[doctorhook]

If 4E were to flop at this point, I will become a 4on 4life.

This game truly rocks! I think so, and all of the people I play with think so too! If others don't like it, or think it's a bad game, well then, forget about them; they aren't a part of my group.

All this talk of 4E having one foot in the grave is completely contrary to my experiences. I actually have trouble comprehending the root of all this negativity, passive-aggressive hostility, and plain-ol' "aggressive hostility", because it's so foreign to what I have experienced with 4E.

 

[Set]

If 4E were to flop at this point, I will become a 4on 4life.

This game truly rocks! I think so, and all of the people I play with think so too! If others don't like it, or think it's a bad game, well then, forget about them; they aren't a part of my group.

All this talk of 4E having one foot in the grave is completely contrary to my experiences. I actually have trouble comprehending the root of all this negativity, passive-aggressive hostility, and plain-ol' "aggressive hostility", because it's so foreign to what I have experienced with 4E.

To whom in this thread are you responding?

I see a bunch of posts talking about anecdotal sales figures, best-seller lists and the success/non-success of the DDI and GSL. Not one post has accused 4E of being a 'bad game,' as you say (although there was a veiled implication that it wasn't marketed as well as it could have been, and many suggestions that the economy sucks, which could be considered 'negativity,' although I don't see anyone blaming the price of oil on Hasbro or 4th edition...).

The most 'negative' stuff I've seen are some posters *defending* 4E and claiming that Chris Pramas has some evil agenda and biasing his data to make 4E look bad, because, uh, well, no reason really, since he's releasing a 4E product as we speak, and has shifted away from 3rd edition to support True20 and M&M and *has no reason to bash 4E, since it would be counter his own market position!*

What sort of whacky unhinged conspiracy theory is this? Chris Pramas is trying to sell us a 4E product, and so he's telling us that 4E sucks? Why on earth would he do that? And he didn't anyway.

Yeesh. The drama.

Some dude heard from some distributers that 4E was selling about as well as 3E. Wow. That's like fighting words, apparently, to compare a companies latest product with it's best-selling previous product! Heaven forfend he's said something *really* controversial, like that 4E hasn't made WotC as much money as they've made off of Magic: the Gathering!

 

[Jack99]

USATODAY takes account online retailers that perhaps Pramas' contact was not considering them.

Considering the evidence of 4e selling a lot of books through the web, wouldn't that make this contact's comments fairly irrelevant? Not to mention stupid.

"Oh wait, people actually buy books at this amazon.com place?"

:: for the "source", if that is the case.

 

[Vendark]

Yet, the only supplements I have been able to find on the same list, is the FR player's Guide and the Adventurer's Vault. If they were selling that poorly, wouldn't logic dictate that at least some 3.x supplements had found their way to the same list?

The 3.5 Magic Item Compendium made the list, which isn't surprising, given how useful it was. But it charted about 35 spots lower than the Adventurer's Vault.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Online sales really don't matter to the topic. Yes, 4e books are sold online, but so were the same 3.5 books that they are being compared to.

 

[TerraDave]

I think some posters may be a little confused.

Its possible to like 4E, and hence wonder how its doing and why it doesn't have the buzz or takeup that, being a good game, it should.

Pramas is, of course, right when he notes:

some people who hate 4E want to crow about its failure and some people who love 4E want to exalt in its success

But we don't all have to do that.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

To whom in this thread are you responding?

I see a bunch of posts talking about anecdotal sales figures, best-seller lists and the success/non-success of the DDI and GSL. Not one post has accused 4E of being a 'bad game,' as you say (although there was a veiled implication that it wasn't marketed as well as it could have been, and many suggestions that the economy sucks, which could be considered 'negativity,' although I don't see anyone blaming the price of oil on Hasbro or 4th edition...).

The most 'negative' stuff I've seen are some posters *defending* 4E and claiming that Chris Pramas has some evil agenda and biasing his data to make 4E look bad, because, uh, well, no reason really, since he's releasing a 4E product as we speak, and has shifted away from 3rd edition to support True20 and M&M and *has no reason to bash 4E, since it would be counter his own market position!*

What sort of whacky unhinged conspiracy theory is this? Chris Pramas is trying to sell us a 4E product, and so he's telling us that 4E sucks? Why on earth would he do that? And he didn't anyway.

Yeesh. The drama.

Some dude heard from some distributers that 4E was selling about as well as 3E. Wow. That's like fighting words, apparently, to compare a companies latest product with it's best-selling previous product! Heaven forfend he's said something *really* controversial, like that 4E hasn't made WotC as much money as they've made off of Magic: the Gathering!

He mentioned passive agressive people. I would call posting a thread about Chris Pramas saying that distributors and gaming stores reporting a lack of 4E sales with the unspoken intent of posting this as proof that people don't like 4E and that its failing, as well as agreeing with the OP, passive agressive.