Magic Item Daily Power Usage Limits

[DrSpunj]

Looking through the PHB & AV, though, it's easy to note that many magic items don't have +1 or +2 versions. IDHMBWM, but IIRC some of them start at +4 enhancement and go up.

So in response to DracoSuave's example, maybe disenchanting that +3 Healing Armor is a bad move since the magic doesn't function for a +1 or +2 version. I'd likely give the Wizard in my game an Arcana check or three to realize that before going ahead with the Disenchant.

 

[DracoSuave]

Even then, there's some -damn- useful low level dailies that can easily be abused.

Essentially, you'd be replacing the power system of the character with items of their choice once they got Enchant Item. That's the point of it.

 

[Roger]

I'm dropping artifacts into the game with the last session b/c I want to try out those rules. One of the things we missed was the magic item daily power usage limits on PHB pg 266.

I'm also missing the magic item daily power usage limits on PHB pg 266.

Specific to artifacts, note the section on Artifact Use Limits on DMG pg 164.




Cheers,
Roger

 

[CapnZapp]

It's -legal- shinanegans tho. It's not even bending the rules. If there's no daily item limit, you can bet your ass I'm going to make items -specifically- so I can use their powers, and you can bet that I'll be making them at the lowest level they're feasible.

So it might not be five of the same power, but if I have an item my level with useful power... and the same item at -10 levels with the same power, I'm going to DE, make the lower level item, and use the residuum to make other daily powers.

Perhaps cloning the same power is an 'exploit' but it isn't an exploit to make items specificly to take advantage of the fact you want more item use.

Or if it is, then you understand why they have the limit in the first place.

Its not that we dont understand it. Its that we dont like it.

Concluding the rule needs to stay the same isnt nearly as productive as handling the fallout from its removal.

 

[DracoSuave]

That depends on your definition of the word 'productive.'

If 'productive' means emphasizing character abilities and growth over the loot that they accumulate, then yes, keeping the rule as is could be 'productive.'

So what it comes down to is what you visualize a character as. Is it like most other rpgs where it's character with its own strengths and weaknesses, then fine. But if it's like earlier incarnations of D&D where characters were quite literally a speed rating attached to a pile of items and powers, then by all means, lose the item limits.

Otherwise, your only fix is to trade one limitation for another, as shown by your previous responses to the obvious 'loopholes' where 'loophole' is Enchant Magic Item.

 

[Nail]

If 'productive' means emphasizing character abilities and growth over the loot that they accumulate, then yes, keeping the rule as is could be 'productive'.

FWIW, I like the limits on daily powers from magic items, both as a player and as a DM. One of 3.xe's greatest failings (IMO) was how important the gear was to a PC, and how that importance only increased as a PC leveled up.

That said: at least one gamer I know has said repeatedly how much he hates 4e's limit of daily gear use. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, eh?

 

[CapnZapp]

That depends on your definition of the word 'productive.'

If 'productive' means emphasizing character abilities and growth over the loot that they accumulate, then yes, keeping the rule as is could be 'productive.'

There you do it again.

The snark aside, you are implying that the status quo is the only way to preserving balance, which, beyond being clearly shortsighted and false, frankly makes your advice useless in a house rule forum.

Let me rephrase the question in a way that hopefully makes you come up with a more "productive" answer:

If you cant use the limit on magic item dailies, how would you go about preserving the games balance visavi not relying on items too much?

(Its perfectly fine to say "I dont know" or "I cant be arsed to come up with a suggestion". Both are much preferred over your current, and somewhat preposterous, attitude that comes across as "changing the system will only lead to an inferior game regardless of your designer skills - dont do it, the system is perfect and ideal as is and should not be touched"

Merry Christmas,
Z

 

[CapnZapp]

That said: at least one gamer I know has said repeatedly how much he hates 4e's limit of daily gear use. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, eh?

I guess thats one reason to visit this thread:
Hoping somebody posts a house rule that allows you to remove this rule without that necessarily leading to the return of the Christmas Tree effect!

 

[Charwoman Gene]

frankly makes your advice useless in a house rule forum.

This isn't a house rules forum.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There you do it again.

The snark aside, you are implying that the status quo is the only way to preserving balance, which, beyond being clearly shortsighted and false, frankly makes your advice useless in a house rule forum.

Let me rephrase the question in a way that hopefully makes you come up with a more "productive" answer:

If you cant use the limit on magic item dailies, how would you go about preserving the games balance visavi not relying on items too much?

(Its perfectly fine to say "I dont know" or "I cant be arsed to come up with a suggestion". Both are much preferred over your current, and somewhat preposterous, attitude that comes across as "changing the system will only lead to an inferior game regardless of your designer skills - dont do it, the system is perfect and ideal as is and should not be touched"

Merry Christmas,
Z

I am afraid I don't know, and it is not easily possible - if at all - to do so.
The closest to a workable suggestion I have is:
- Don't give out items that have "attack" powers that are better then basic attacks.
- if you really need an attack, define the attack bonus in the item (see alchemical items). No level or ability bonus or anything. This means lower level items lose in value, and you would need money to buy or enchant items equal to your level.
- Don't grant daily powers by slotless items.
- Balance the combat around everyone firing a daily item power every other round (or at least closer to this).
- Require Healing Surges for activation. That still makes it a de facto daily limit, but at least you "see" how you're paying for it.