Why the D&D Miniature Line Failed...

[SteveC]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the elephant in the room: the quality of the sculpts and the painting. When D&D minis first came out I picked up a couple sets and the quality was fine.

I didn't need a lot of the more unusual minis, so I soon discovered the market for purchasing online, and had the basics that I needed. It was about the third set into the game (you'll have to forgive me, I didn't memorize the names of the sets) when I stopped buying them altogether because the quality was no longer acceptable to me. Poor paint jobs, poor sculpts and ever increasing prices? No thanks.

For the new series, I'll take a look at the sets my friends pick up, and if they're decent quality again, I'll pick some up, if not, forget it. With the Reaper prepainted series, as basic as they are, I've seen you can do a quality job. Hopefully the new series will be just that. If not, well, it's another product I won't be interested in.

--Steve

 

[Piratecat]

Then you obviously haven't been looking. This is a blanket statement that absolutely REEKS of falsehood.

I'm pretty sure you can disagree with someone without calling them a deliberate liar. Please do so next time.

 

[Glyfair]

If this were true, there was no reason for WotC to market the minis using a standard CMG approach (i.e., randomized minis sold in limited sets) or, indeed, to develop a CMG in the first place

There were plenty of reasons to use the the random packaging method, as have been covered in length elsewhere. Given they were going to do so, it seems reasonable that linking a CMG to the distribution method of miniatures was a reasonable addition to the miniatures line.

Still, regardless of which market the DDM line was originally targeted, the primary buyers were the RPG market. However, CMG players were enough of the market that WotC had to take them into consideration when they put a set together.

 

[Fifth Element]

The only "failure" was that the profit margin was not as unspeakably high as Wotc needs to make Hasbo happy.

A. What was WotC's profit (or more relevantly, their ROI) from DDM?

B. What profit (or ROI) was required to make Hasbro "happy"?

C. What defines a profit (or ROI) as "unspeakably high"?

 

[Fifth Element]

So, who all is pumped for the new DDM format for Spring '09? High-quality minis? Woohoo!

I'm fairly excited. I don't mind the higher price, it's comparable to what Reaper was charging.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I bought a few boxes in my local Barnes & Noble, but I have mostly bought D&D minis on eBay when I need them for coming events in my D&D campaign (i.e., I bought 10 harpies on eBay for like $15, including shipping, and already have the Blackguard on Nightmare mini and the Sorcerer on Black Dragon) ... of course, I also have a ton of painted Warhammer minis (Empire, Dwarfs, Wood Elves & Orcs/Goblins), so that helps me out as well.

I would almost never buy random minis and have zero interest in spending my limited gaming time learning a mini-skirmish game when I've had Warhammer fantasy minis for a decade now and have yet to play one single game of Warhammer. (maybe next week, he says, for week #500 in a row) Or Mordheim, which is their skirimish game.

I've spent $10-$20 on a few choice D&D minis (Champion of Ellistrae (sp) for one) and I have bought a few expensive Reaper/GW painted minis off of eBay, or had them painted on commission for way too much money.

But, I think part of the problem is the quality of the D&D minis, both of the plastics and the paint jobs, and the scale: Why is my gravetouched ghoul so much bigger than my regular ghoul mini? It's almost like comparing Shaquille O'Neal to a goblin in terms of size difference.

 

[Mark]

An 'official' dungeons and dragons descent-style-and scale board game with tiles, little treasure chests, barrels, crates, LOTS of minis, trap cards, equipment cards, power cards, monster cards, etc... would be nice!

Dragon Strike | BoardGameGeek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonStrike_(board_game)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8LBpMuSTrQ]YouTube - DragonStrike[/ame] (warning: video w/sound)

 

[jephlewis]

An 'official' dungeons and dragons descent-style-and scale board game with tiles, little treasure chests, barrels, crates, LOTS of minis, trap cards, equipment cards, power cards, monster cards, etc... would be nice!

Dragon Strike | BoardGameGeek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonStrike_(board_game

I've heard of dragonstrike, and it's kinda sorta similar in a lot of ways to what i'm talking about, but I think dungeon tiles would be better than an actual board [more customization, plus opportunity for expansion packs], and it needs more minis and furniture.

Are you saying 'hey, here's a D&D boardgame'?
Are you saying 'hey, it's been tried before, and it succeeded'?
Are you saying 'hey, it's been tried before, and it failed'?
I'm sorry; I've been sick for a few days, taking cold/headache medicine, and i'm not following you. Could you elaborate further, please?
Also, your wikipedia link doesn't have an article.

 

[jdrakeh]

There were plenty of reasons to use the the random packaging method, as have been covered in length elsewhere.

Well, in fairness, the only reason so far given in the proposed situation of CMG players not forming the target demographic basically amounts to "We don't understand miniature wargames, but we do understand collectible games, so let's do that instead!" — which is a reason, yes, though an arguably bad one. I could be wrong, but I think that this is what Chris Pramas was getting at — that WotC chose to cater to CMG players, because they weren't sure how to market a minis game to wargamers or roleplayers.

However, CMG players were enough of the market that WotC had to take them into consideration when they put a set together.

The thing is, I can't see any evidence that making the DDM line appeal to roleplayers was much more than an afterthought. The random minis, limited distribution, etc are all marketing approcahes pretty much exclusively tailored for the CMG market — not for RPG players. I think, in the beginning, WotC simply chose to cater to the wrong target audience and hasn't tried to retool the line with an eye toward servicing RPG players until very recently.

 

[Mark]

I've heard of dragonstrike, and it's kinda sorta similar in a lot of ways to what i'm talking about, but I think dungeon tiles would be better than an actual board [more customization, plus opportunity for expansion packs], and it needs more minis and furniture.

Yes, to all.

Are you saying 'hey, here's a D&D boardgame'?
Are you saying 'hey, it's been tried before, and it succeeded'?
Are you saying 'hey, it's been tried before, and it failed'?

I guess that TSR created that as a conduit to gain D&D players.

I'm sorry; I've been sick for a few days, taking cold/headache medicine, and i'm not following you. Could you elaborate further, please?

Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.

Also, your wikipedia link doesn't have an article.

Thanks. Somehow the final ")" often gets removed using board-code and needs to be re-added.