Why the D&D Miniature Line Failed...

[eyebeams]

Keep in mind that this is an economic climate where *Wizkids* has ceased operations until someone with more modest expectations can take over their properties. The fact that DDM ended at the same time does not mean it bombed anymore than the Clix games.

CMGs are aimed at a young demographic with heavy disposable income that is earned by their parents. The miniatures do not have the same margins as other collectibles due to manufacturing complexity. If you were a game company, would you bet on something that requires Mom and Dad to shell out extra money? Would you do it for something that makes less money per unit and requires decent economies of scale to work properly?

I doubt this is a triumph for people who want RPG miniatures first. For one thing, WotC has a fairly rotten record of trying to convince people to consistently play with them. Remember the Miniatures Handbook? That was marketed as a virtual 4th corebook for 3.5.

I think it's more probable that this was the result of some rapid restructuring based on market research in response to the credit crunch. WotC will push its existing minis designs into nonrandom packs to make a tiny bit of money and offer brand support until it can find a new way to get a kick at the minis can. It is, after all, one of the few things that can't really be duplicated by MMOs.

(This has interesting implications for DDI. Will gamers pay for WoW style graphics in their minis when they can just play WoW? I think a high-rez character creator would be a big draw, even if it can't render that on the game table.)

Their next big try is probably not going to rely on the RPG alone, because that's an insufficiently large market. WotC knows it can't win in GW's niche because it tried that with Chainmail. It won't come back for CMGs until market conditions change.

What's next? Maybe expandable board games or wargames with board game features. I do know that every game designer around salivated at the introduction of BattleLore.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't think the CMG players were ever the primary market.

If this were true, there was no reason for WotC to market the minis using a standard CMG approach (i.e., randomized minis sold in limited sets) or, indeed, to develop a CMG in the first place

I think the success the D&D minis had was due to the roleplayers.

I don't disagree with that. I also think that roleplayers should have been the primary market for DMM, but the minis certainly haven't been marketed very well toward that group of consumers, IMHO. There are and have been easier, cheaper, options availble to roleplayers who simply wanted minis for their RPGs.

To me, it seems that WotC is finally taking some steps to address this by dialing back the totally random distribution and limited castings that appeal to CMG players and, instead, making it a little easier for RPG players to get what they want/need for their games.

 

[Herschel]

As previously mentioned, I think the minis game has been pretty dead for a while now. I honestly don't know anybody who has been playing the D&D minis game regularly for at least a year.

Then you obviously haven't been looking. This is a blanket statement that absolutely REEKS of falsehood. WotC's rollout of 2.0 was handled poorly, timed even worse and did cost them a number of players, but there were still a good number of people playing. Yes, even on these boards. A trip through minis hall at Gen Con and just striking up conversations would give you an idea of the regional diversity. Most every area was down players, but there were still a decent number out there.

As for the minis themselves, the farmers and prisoners are VERY useful in RPG (and farmers in skirmish). Sure, there were a lot of dogs in there (I'm looking at you Spiritfolk) but also a large number of truly useful minis even in the common slots (farmers, archers, wolves, militia, goblins, etc.)

 

[Pramas]

If this were true, there was no reason for WotC to market the minis using a standard CMG approach (i.e., randomized minis sold in limited sets) or, indeed, to develop a CMG in the first place

I'm not saying that WotC didn't believe there would be a big CMG market for the game. I just don't think it ever actually happened.

As for the CMG approach, there was a big reason for WotC to take it. Management at WotC never understood what it took to set up a traditional miniatures business. Collectible games though they got.

I was involved in WotC's first miniatures efforts and saw this first hand. We were trying to set up a traditional metal minis business and we kept being asked if we couldn't find some way to make it collectible. To Eyebeams I would say that Chainmail wasn't a good test of anything because what ultimately came out bore almost no resemblance to what we were trying to do.

 

[frankthedm]

The only "failure" was that the profit margin was not as unspeakably high as Wotc needs to make Hasbo happy. Rather than be happy with a solid success that will endure, Wotc keeps tweaking things to try to have a a short term fad with outstanding sales. Hasbro bought wotc for one reason, Pokemoney. At the time of Hasbro's purchase of WotC, that card game was obscenely profitable. Now, the fad is passed, but Habro is continually shaking WotC like a ragdoll and demanding "Where is the Pokemoney?!"

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm not saying that WotC didn't believe there would be a big CMG market for the game. I just don't think it ever actually happened.

As for the CMG approach, there was a big reason for WotC to take it. Management at WotC never understood what it took to set up a traditional miniatures business. Collectible games though they got.

I was involved in WotC's first miniatures efforts and saw this first hand. We were trying to set up a traditional metal minis business and we kept being asked if we couldn't find some way to make it collectible.

Oh, I think we're 100% in agreement on all points, then

 

[jdrakeh]

Then you obviously haven't been looking. This is a blanket statement that absolutely REEKS of falsehood.

I think it's probably more accurate to say that our experiences differ. As I said, I honestly don't know anybody (not a single individual) still playing the DDM skirmish game. Where I live, Herschel, DDM minis have been sitting on some store shelves for so long that the boxes have actually changed color (having been bleached out by the sunlight). I'm sorry that you don't believe me, Herschel, but. . . well, it's true. I really don't know what else to say.

 

[CleverNickName]

Yep, that's the reason--and pretty much the only reason--I didn't buy more of them, and why 90% of the ones I did buy were commons and uncommons from singles dealers rather than randomized boxes.

Pig farmers, prisoners, and drunken brawlers are useful enough to me in my games that I would (and did) buy a few. But no beholder was worth $40.00 or having to buy a dozen boxes of god-knows-what.

Same here. I like to know what I am buying. I want to buy minis so that I can use them in my games, not simply to collect them and brag about how "rare" my latest figure was. (Not that there is anything wrong with that; it's just not my style.)

I decided a long time ago to use tiles instead. The night before an adventure, I download all of the pictures of the monsters that I need, and then I print them out on Avery disk labels. Peel them off, stick them on some foamboard, and cut them out with an Xacto knife. Presto...I have exactly what I want, in exactly the right quantitites. And after the game, I sort them out into little brown envelopes, label them, and file them away for future use.

 

[jephlewis]

Their next big try is probably not going to rely on the RPG alone, because that's an insufficiently large market. WotC knows it can't win in GW's niche because it tried that with Chainmail. It won't come back for CMGs until market conditions change.

What's next? Maybe expandable board games or wargames with board game features. I do know that every game designer around salivated at the introduction of BattleLore.

An 'official' dungeons and dragons descent-style-and scale board game with tiles, little treasure chests, barrels, crates, LOTS of minis, trap cards, equipment cards, power cards, monster cards, etc... would be nice!
I was kinda thinking the same thing on the first page, but I called them 'playsets'. Of course, if they made a 'core board game' and the 'playsets' were 'expansions', that would be cool too.
Ideally, D&D would then be in toy stores, wal mart, target, kmart, etc... and offer the 'much bigger, more pieces, and FIDDLY BITS' mini game [in whatever form it took] as an intro to 4E AND a board game AND an alternative to a full blown tabletop rpg; this thing 'runs' dungeons and quests only. Give the kids [and grown ups like me] lots of fiddly bits for an outrageously low price [it's gotta be cheaper than descent, or it's got to have more stuff than descent], and i'll buy three of them.

Please?

 

[buzz]

The DDM line didn't fail. It morphed...

This.

I see no evidence that the DDM line failed, ergo I find the topic kind of bizarre. I think it's obvious that the minis were a massive success. WotC wouldn't keep making them otherwise. As others have said, WotC has simply realized that there's a better way to market and package them. I.e., forget the skirmish game and target the roleplayers, who were the ones buying most of them anyway.

Calling DDM a failure is crazy talk.