D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 dnd encounters

wormfood

First Post
can someone explain to me how to make decent encounters in 3.5 d&d? i always tend to have encounters that are either too hard or waaay too easy for my players and i'm really concerned since i want to make good adventures (and the staple of good adventures is great encounters lol).

some things i'm wondering about are:
how do magic items play into ecl/cr's?
how do templates play into ecl/cr's?
multiple monsters?
monsters with classes (or are they just +1 per level cr/ecl)?

thanks!
 

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First of all, when making an encounter as a DM, you do not need to care about ECL. CR is all you must concern. (Though you use ECL when using default NPC wealth value rule in DMG. But I will write about it later.)

>how do magic items play into ecl/cr's?

Default rule in DMG has wealth amount table for NPCs. And that table is using ECL for giving gps to each NPCs. And assuming that something without LA simply has treasures and monsters are using if something useful is in their treasure pile.

But later modules such as Red Hand of Doom or later monster supplements such as MM IV or V are suggesting another method. Use that NPC wealth table, but give total wealth based on opponents' CR, instead of ECL.

So, CR 15 Drow (14th-level character, ECL 16) has gears as a 15th-level NPC.
A CR 10 Blackspawn Exterminator (Blackspawn Raider Ninja 6, no LA is shown and thus we cannot calculate it's ECL) has gears as a 10th-level NPC.

In my experience, this method works better.

>how do templates play into ecl/cr's?

Basically, increase CR as per the rule. But some combination works better and yet some combination works miserably. So, as the MM says, you, as a DM, should estimate the CR of the resulted creature by comparing to existing ones.

You should better be careful when applying multiple templates or when applying template(s) to an advanced creature.

>multiple monsters?

I am not sure what the intention of this question. Encounter Level table of an encounter with multiple creatures is already in DMG. So you should just follow that rule.

If you are asking if you should better use multiple monsters instead of one big monster, I strongly say YES. An encounter against a single big monster tends to end in one way or another. Single round win by PCs or total annihilation of the party.

>monsters with classes (or are they just +1 per level cr/ecl)?

You can find the rule in MM Chapter 4 "Advancing Monsters". But again, as the rule is emphasizing, you should not only use calculation for determining the resulted creature's CR and instead estimate CR by yourself, comparing the resulted creatures to already existing ones.

Hope this helps.
 
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If you're unsure of your ability to gauge too hard or too easy, lean towards to easy and make heavy use of "waves" of enemies, such as re-inforcements. That way, you can adjust the difficulty mid-battle, when you have a better dea of how things are going. Have the sheets and info for any NPcs in a second wave ready to go in case it's needed.

Try to make enemies with more defenses and health than offense, so if you misjudge the encounter and it proves too hard, the PCs won't get completely slaughtered before they can realize it and retreat. If your players use a lot of battlefield control and "save-or-lose" type spells, this might not be a useful DMing tactic, as such spells will bypass hp, DR, and resistances (and frequently enough, SR), making the low offense monsters into utter jokes.

Finally, sometimes it helps if you clue in the players to how tough the fight will be. More experienced players will have ome insight into what is "the boss fight" and such (unless the DM takes measures to foil their attempts at this insight). This is a useful skill because in 3E, there are a LOT of abilities that are of the /day usage type. Unloading a lot of these furiously can make a tough fight much easier, and holding back on them can make an easy fight more difficult. So, you could give a really fearsome description of the things you're concerned may be too strong to encourage them to go all out on those monsters. Alternatively, any fight where they're losing badly, they'll probably start tossing out their highest level spells and such just to survive anyway, so it can be self-balancing. If after such a battle, you had more planned butare concerned they lack the resources to handle it now, let them rest or scale back the following encounters in difficulty.


Once you have more experience, take a look and compare some numbers. Look at a monster's attack bonus and compare to the ACs of the players, most importantly the ones he is likely to attack the most (ie, a hill giant will likely end up pounding it out with the Fighter; a drow archer would likely try to pluck off the mage or healer). Look at average damage dealt and compare to hp of players to estimate how many hits they could survive. (To find the average of any even-sided die (which will be nearly all of them), simple divide by 2 and add 0.5 -- average of a d6 is 3.5, d8 is 4.5, etc...).

If it has SR, can the casters overcome it 50% of the time? 25%? 75%? Will it's energy resistances/immunities potentially make the mage ueless in harming it? For some it won't matte,r but for evocation types, this can be important to consider.

If it has DR the melee characters don't have the proper weapon to bypass, is it a lot? How much damage will the melee PC's attack do after DR? If the PC's main way of dealing with DR is Power Attack, be careful the monster doesn't also have a high AC, or else the Fighter may have a lot of trouble harming it.

If you have a Rogue who relies a lot on Sneak Attack, any enemies immune to it will severely reduce her effectiveness in combat.

And so on... always keep in mind your group's specific strengths and weaknesses when figuring out how hard an encounter will be. And it's ok for the Fighter to encounter a high AC and DR foe, the Rogue to face undead, the wizard to find a golem, etc... from time to time. Not every fight has to ensure all the PCs are unhindered, as long as the others in the group can contribute and you're not stacking the deck against a specific PC too much overall. --If half of all the enemies encountered are sneak attack immune, you would be screwing over the rogue, for example.
 

If you like the sound of a different (and far more accurate) system for calculating CR, EL and so on, check out the Immortals Handbook appendix v5 (hopefully there will be a v6 coming out soon).

Well worth a look, even if for whatever reason you don't end up using it, because it could be informative anyhow.

And the back of the MM v3.5, of course. There's actually a lot of info there.
 


can someone explain to me how to make decent encounters in 3.5 d&d?

Not directly. It depends on the composition of the PCs. If you are using core characters with standard wealth/level & standard char generation then use CR & the encounter tables and it will be fine.
 


thanks for the advice!

one little question more though (or perhaps a question addendum?), about the multiple creatures: i meant, what do you do when you have multiple creatures of different cr values (ie. 3 cr 1 goblins, 2 cr 4 wargs, and a cr 6 hobgoblin barbarian)? how do you judge if your players can take that, or is it just based on indivdual parties?
 

thanks for the advice!

one little question more though (or perhaps a question addendum?), about the multiple creatures: i meant, what do you do when you have multiple creatures of different cr values (ie. 3 cr 1 goblins, 2 cr 4 wargs, and a cr 6 hobgoblin barbarian)? how do you judge if your players can take that, or is it just based on indivdual parties?

In general 2 creatures of the same CR make for an encounter level of their CR + 2.

So, for example, 2 x CR4 Wargs in the same encounter make for an EL6 encounter. 2 x a CR 6 creature make an EL8 encounter. So it would be an average encounter for a group of four 6th Level PC's.

If you have different CR creatures in the combat things get a little more difficult to calculate. If there are 2 x CR4 Wargs in an encounter and a CR6 creature then the encounter is considered to be EL8. The 2 CR4 Wargs = 1 CR6 creature. Add that to the other CR6 creature and you get a EL8 encounter.

When awarding XP you should still work out the XP awards for each creature's individual CR though. So in the above fight you would give the PC's XP for defeating 2 x CR4 creatures + 1 x CR6 creature, not the XP for defeating 1 x CR8 creature.

I hope I wasn't too confusing for you.

Olaf the Stout
 

thanks for the advice!

one little question more though (or perhaps a question addendum?), about the multiple creatures: i meant, what do you do when you have multiple creatures of different cr values (ie. 3 cr 1 goblins, 2 cr 4 wargs, and a cr 6 hobgoblin barbarian)? how do you judge if your players can take that, or is it just based on indivdual parties?
Some people actually worked out a nice general mathematical formula for it (can't remember who, but I think it's probably someone from ENWorld, maybe Wulf Ratbane, not sure). This has been put in a web form, which I copied to my site. Here is my copy of it. Maybe that will be useful!
 

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