D&D 4E D&D 4th edition lord of the rings?

[Evenglare]

So i kind of want to do a Middle-Earth campaign. I was thinking of obviously taking out the arcane classes, and maybe only leaving the cleric, restricted to elven race. Obviously only have dwarves, halflings, humans and elf. Many of the monsters could be usable. Some sort of demon as a balrog, many orcs ,goblins, big spiders etc etc. I think it would be pretty doable. Any more suggestions?

 

[CapnZapp]

I would say 4E is the first edition of D&D that really makes it possible for a low-magic campaign.

Perhaps I could suggest you allowing the Warlord instead of the Cleric. It heals just as good, but without any divine flavor. Besides, Aragorn at high level is as much a Warlord as he is a Ranger.

As for monsters, don't be afraid to use the full range of MM monsters. Just reskin them. If your players aren't experienced 4E gamers, you can use their powers without modification, just altering the description of the monster itself. (Sure, angels and gelatineous cubes would probably not fit at all...)

As for magic items, or the lack of such, the DMG does a pretty good job of providing tables and stuff that explains what bonuses PCs are expected to have at each level. Instead of finding Amulets of Protection, you could simply grant them a +3 bonus to Fort/Ref/Will when they reach Paragon tier (level 11) and a +5 bonus at Epic (lvl 21).

Of course, you could hand out a plain +4 Longsword and just say its bonus comes from its good Quality instead of magic. And when I think about it, if you have your adventurers to be rewarded by the elves somewhere around level 11, they could concievably be given de-facto Amulets of Protection too...

You'd just ease down on the more flashier Daily powers. Instead of finding stuff that can throw fireballs, you'd select powers that simply add to damage or healing.

So, yes, it would be pretty doable indeed. Much more simple and straight-forward, in fact, than ever before!

 

[BendBars/LiftGates]

I'm a big Tolkien fan, so it hurts me to say this, but maybe you should take some liberties with this. Unless your players are totally on-board with your changes, you might think about being more inclusive with their concepts.


Arcane classes. It's true that there aren't many examples of these in the books, except for the obvious Gandalf, Saruman, etc. And Gandalf wasn't even much of a D&D wizard. But if your players want to do this, I'd say let them do it. Find a way to make it work. The various Istari are quite poorly-defined outside of the big two. Radagast at least has a name, but the other two just wander "in the East." If you want to play one of these, it'd probably be a bigger roleplaying challenge than mechanics challenge, playing an ageless being from another world. Or, just be someone who was otherwise trained in magic. Who knows what the elves can do? Maybe you were trained at a secret institution founded by one of the Blue Wizards to weaken the forces of Sauron in a distant city never mentioned in The Lord of the Rings.

If you aren't starting soon, the Player's Handbook 2 will have the Primal power source, which looks like it'd work well in Middle-earth. Maybe you're of a druidic sect from Fangorn, or you practice ancient elven magic, or your powers haven't ever been seen before outside of the gardens of Valinor.

As for magic items, there are plenty of them in Middle-earth. Look here and here, for example. Any sword, spear, bow, etc. with a name is almost certainly magic in some way, and the elves have all sorts of magic worked into their crafts. Don't worry about giving out too much magic. Besides the Ring, Frodo had a magic sword, magic cloak, magic rope, magic phial, mithril armor, magic food, and that brooch could easily have been magic (but would of course compete for the Neck slot).




Interestingly, if you want to see how a high-magic version of The Lord of the Rings might look, check out the new "Conquest" game. They have orc and human mages, for Gandalf's sake! Clearly, D&D has also had an impact on people's imagining of Middle-earth.

 

[arscott]

I'd allow eladrin back in--Even LotR has the high elf/wood elf split. Though their racial power could probably use changing.

What about reserving magic for multiclassing only, rather than abandoning it entirely. That lets you have the "I don't actually cast that many spells" LotR wizard archetype without hobbling anyone who wants to play a caster.

 

[CapnZapp]

BendBars/LiftGates, not sure how you arrived at the "my players want to play fireballin' wizards and flying super-heroes in my Tolkien game, how do I make them stop" angle...?

As I see it, the question is more like "me and my players want a Middle-Earth game. I've heard D&D don't do that well. Or does it?" where we discuss from the viewpoint the rules that's the potential problem. (Historically, such a viewpoint has certainly been justified)

What I don't think is a problem, however, is the OP/DM enrichening his campaign by excluding certain elements of generic D&D (because that is how you create something that isn't generic).

 

[CapnZapp]

I'd allow eladrin back in--Even LotR has the high elf/wood elf split. Though their racial power could probably use changing.

Agreed on the Fey Step. But it isn't uncommon for Middle-Earth campaigns to ban Noldor. Not primarily because they're so superior, but because it's hard to play a thousands of years old elder.

What about reserving magic for multiclassing only, rather than abandoning it entirely. That lets you have the "I don't actually cast that many spells" LotR wizard archetype without hobbling anyone who wants to play a caster.

Not sure why you'd want to play a caster in a Middle-Earth campaign...?

Again, I think the kind of advice wanted here isn't "did I disallow too much".

I think it is solutions on "what problems will I have rules-wise if I do"?

 

[BendBars/LiftGates]

CapnZapp, I'm not sure how you yourself arrived at that angle. It seems that we have a completely legitimate difference of opinions. The OP asked about which things should be excluded from D&D (including "obviously [...] the arcane classes," divine classes except for elven clerics, and races except for human, halfling, elf, and dwarf) to make it more like Middle-earth.

I think it's fine to say that you want to cut out things that aren't in Middle-earth. If that feels more like the books, then it'll be a more satisfying play experience. What I said was that I also think you can play a Middle-earth game with some elements of D&D that never appeared in any of the books.

My argument is this: You may easily get tired of playing only with things that appeared in Tolkien's books. He wasn't trying to tell nearly as many stories as a D&D campaign might potentially accomodate or touch upon, and he never claimed that his books were an exhaustive account of all the inhabitants of the world. If your campaign is doing things that no one did in the books, then you can include monsters, classes, races, and all kinds of things that have no analog in the literature.

To that end, I'm trying to come up with plausible justifications to include things from D&D that haven't been described in Middle-earth, but could fit.



If anyone hasn't seen it, the Advanced Player's Guide is a really fantastic 4e book that includes "the Shire Halfling," which are, unsurprisingly, exactly the hobbits you want in a Middle-earth campaign. Much more familiar than what halflings have become.

 

[CapnZapp]

BB/LG, as I interpreted the OP, he used what he took out of the game as examples of what you'd do to make it more Tolkienish. Then he asked for more suggestions.

I didn't see him ask for arguments on why he should reconsider.

Your reply suggests to me you've underestimated Tolkien fans. Taking liberties with the source material is normally not appreciated.

Suggestions on what rules and effects you need to be aware of assuming you accept the restrictions mandated by the choice of gameworld, on the other hand, would surely be highly appreciated!



But enough of this. Let's wait for the OP to clarify his needs.

PS. Thanks for the Shire Halfling link!