Grading At-Will Powers

[keterys]

Controllers appear to be defined by their at-wills, so they basically get better ones than most, with some exceptions (like twin strike). A Scorching Burst that hits two people does comparable damage to a warlock... and if you're not hitting two people, then you should use a different at-will.

 

[yesnomu]

New class previews mean a new set of at-wills! Unfortunately, the Warden's are rather uninteresting:

Earth Shield Strike - It's like 3.5's Dodge all over again! Thorough meh, worse than Thundering Armor. I give it a C.

Strength of Stone - Pretty handy, equal to Recuperating Strike, minus the bonus for raging. B.

Thorn Strike - This one's kinda neat, although it's a shame it doesn't extend to three for reach weapons. For a defender, pulling is better than pushing, so I'd put it as better than Tide of Iron: B+

Weight of Earth - Worse than Grasping Claws, since it's not a melee basic. Slowed is a pretty good condition for a defender to give out, though. B-.

 

[Ahglock]

New class previews mean a new set of at-wills! Unfortunately, the Warden's are rather uninteresting:

Earth Shield Strike - It's like 3.5's Dodge all over again! Thorough meh, worse than Thundering Armor. I give it a C.

Strength of Stone - Pretty handy, equal to Recuperating Strike, minus the bonus for raging. B.

Thorn Strike - This one's kinda neat, although it's a shame it doesn't extend to three for reach weapons. For a defender, pulling is better than pushing, so I'd put it as better than Tide of Iron: B+

Weight of Earth - Worse than Grasping Claws, since it's not a melee basic. Slowed is a pretty good condition for a defender to give out, though. B-.

Yeah I rate those differently

Earth Shield Strike . Teh awesome. You hit and get a minor AC boost. B+

Strength of Stone Hit and get temp HPS great at low levels average higher levels up. If you have a good con which you effectively avoid small amounts of damage every time you hit. And since even at mid to high levels damage done is not 3e huge it is fairly cool. B+



Weight of Earth: I basically agree with you on this. Yeah slow is cool, but its a melee attack, its rare for them to just run past you once you are in mellee so the beenfot is smal, though I guess it may improve the chances that who ever you are in combat with wont try to run past you toward a softer target. B-

Thorn Strike: I like it a pull is slick, its get over here time. Not bad assed or anyhting but its fun and effective. B+

edited out class features

 

[yesnomu]

Eh. You won't even notice the AC boost most of the time, and it makes your mark less valuable, since it encourages enemies not to attack you. Lame.

Something is screwed up with the Temp HP powers, though. The Paladin's Bolstering Smite gets a B-, the barb's Recup Strike gets B+, and the Fighter's Crushing Surge gets an A, when (correct me if I'm wrong) they all do the exact same thing! (Melee basic w/ secondary stat to Temp HP.) What's the deal?

 

[keterys]

I suspect that's people having some pretty big differences of opinion in how useful temp hp are.

I can say that I think Crushing Surge is completely wrong, since it also suffers from some MAD (shared save with Str, etc) - probably people are objecting more to the Battlerager than Crushing Surge itself.

 

[Mengu]

probably people are objecting more to the Battlerager than Crushing Surge itself.

Yup, that's that's exactly the case for me. If it didn't stack with existing temporary hit points from battle rager. Take away the battlerager build, and I think I'd set it at a B. And for what it's worth, I think Bolstering Smite deserves a B as well. Recuperating strike is a bit better because Constitution is useful to a barbarian in many ways, and its effect when raging is quite potent.

 

[keterys]

Other than battleragers, how many fighters are taking Crushing Surge over other options, I wonder.

For paladins, I wonder how much use bolstering sees over holy strike (IME, holy strike sees more use, but there's a definite use for both), which is a pretty vanilla at-will.

 

[Mengu]

Other than battleragers, how many fighters are taking Crushing Surge over other options, I wonder.

Since one feat (Untamed Berserker Style) turns Cleave into a conditional Crushing Surge (or unconditional depending on interpretation, link), there probably isn't much point in taking Crushing Surge for a non-battlerager.

For paladins, I wonder how much use bolstering sees over holy strike (IME, holy strike sees more use, but there's a definite use for both), which is a pretty vanilla at-will.

One is charisma based, the other is strength based. I think the more appropriate comparison would be between enfeebling strike and bolstering strike, and in our games, I see about even use (one game enfeebling gets used more often, the other game bolstering gets used more often).

 

[keterys]

Honestly, I think that MAD puts a serious crimp in Bolstering's style, especially as you get higher level. It's definitely solid, but it doesn't seem that exceptional and seems easily dropped over time.

And, yes, it's interesting to compare Crushing Surge to Cleave with a feat.

 

[yesnomu]

Honestly, I think that MAD puts a serious crimp in Bolstering's style, especially as you get higher level. It's definitely solid, but it doesn't seem that exceptional and seems easily dropped over time.

And, yes, it's interesting to compare Crushing Surge to Cleave with a feat.

Well, Bolstering is Cha-based, right? I think a Cha/Wis pally wouldn't be that hard to pull off, especially once you snagged HBO. I'd put it right alongside Crushing Surge, I think at-will rating ought to be build-agnostic.

And heck, has anyone even played a Battlerager yet? Are they really overpowered?