Non-Gunpowder Explosives in Fantasy

[Rechan]

I think explosives in fantasy are great. Either as traps, or as more plot-centric things. The threat of explosives, though, is that it will 1) Impact the campaign world rather significantly, but more importantly, 2) threaten the balance of the game. PCs will want to carry bombs, and when they can carry bombs, why play a wizard when your rogue can chuck grenades as long as his GP can supply it?

The most common explosives is gunpowder, and gun powder pretty much does #1 - it revolutionizes the campaign world. I personally would rather have things develop on a slower pace.

So, what I have been thinking is turning attention to a different explosive material: contact explosives. Something that explodes on contact to heat, light, sound, or physical pressure.

Furthermore, to make it even more troublesome, the explosive should be volatile. Like Nitroglycerin; jarring it, dropping it causes the explosion, making transportation really bothersome. That makes the use and application limited, but still for an interesting set piece. Nitro is a liquid (or a paste, or something like that), so you could 'paint' a surface or an item with nitro, and then wait for someone to stumble across it and boom.

What's interesting about Nitro is that its volatile nature can be suppressed by freezing it. The problem comes when you thaw it, and it becomes unstable fast, especially if you thaw it too quickly. This might allow it to be transported, or contained in traps. Or to be solely held in the stockpiles of an enemy that lives in a cold region.

The trick, here, is fully developing where and how it fits in the campaign, and how the substance behaves. Not mechanically, but just setting the properties. I personally would like to see this handled for a fantasy game too, or at least try to take that into consideration.

What do all of you think?

 

[Rechan]

A consideration that occurs to me is this substance's application or reaction to magic, since this is a fantasy game.

I do like the idea of completely non-magical substances in the game. However, it's kind of funky, having things that behave completely separate to magic (like science and magic existing and not effecting one another, rather than having an interactive relationship).

One solution, then, is to have the substance in question react to magic in some fashion, or perhaps variant substances that react differently. For instance, the chemical might explode when exposed to any sort of magic. Or even explode when in the presence of magic. Or, certain types of magic could cause it to detonate - lightning or fire, naturally. Meanwhile, cold-based magic renders it inert.

A variant I like is some sort of non-magical fluid that, when exposed to necrotic/negative energy, turns into a severely powerful acid or napalm-like substance. It's as though the substance is decay and entropy solidified, so when it is exposed to direct negative energy, it is activated, immediately degenerating anything that it touches.

 

[Krensky]

The problem with this is that nitroglycerin is one accident or crazy idea away from dynamite (you mix nitroglycerin with sawdust or diatomaceous earth), leading to the grenade issue. Also, if your world's alchemists can make nitroglycerin, they can make nitrocellulose. In fact, nitrocellulose is somewhat easier to manufacture. It's certainly a lot safer. Once you have both nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose, you have smokeless powder, and you're back to the gun 'problem'.

Also, and this can not be overstated. Nitroglycerine is dangerous. Insanely dangerous. This is why Alfred Nobel invented Dynamite. It's so dangerous that it's illegal in most of the world to transport it in liquid form and often illegal to transport it when frozen as well. Most nitroglycerin used for explosives until Dynamite was invented was made on site. Since the reaction between the nitric/sulfuric acid mixture and the gylcerin is exothermic (it produces heat, a lot of heat in this case) the whole thing runs a maassive risk of exploding.

 

[Rechan]

The problem with this is that nitroglycerin is one accident or crazy idea away from dynamite

And the answer is "It's not nitroglycerin. It's Substance X." While Substance X has a similarity TO nitro, in as far as it's a contact explosive that is more stable when cold, is as far as the comparison goes.

Or in other words, "It works like Nitro in its base form, but you ain't getting dynamite, sorry."

And yes, nitro is dangerous. THat's part of the plot point. It's literally playing with fire. This way, it's more a plot element or an encounter piece than it is, say, a commodity.

And if it became a commodity, a methodical weapon of war it is not. For mining purposes, certainly, but unless you're crazy like a goblin, you aren't going to use this stuff as a conventional weapon.

 

[Andre]

One solution, then, is to have the substance in question react to magic in some fashion, or perhaps variant substances that react differently. For instance, the chemical might explode when exposed to any sort of magic. Or even explode when in the presence of magic. Or, certain types of magic could cause it to detonate - lightning or fire, naturally. Meanwhile, cold-based magic renders it inert.

I really like this idea. It's a natural development in any world with magic - those lacking in magic would attempt to create countermeasures. However, keep in mind a few considerations before introducing this.

1. How rare is this substance? If it's too common and inexpensive, everyone will have some. This could seriously affect the viability of characters who use magic.

2. How do those who depend on magic react? Imagine Dodge City, where having a gun conveys a certain amount of power and authority. Now imagine a tenderfoot comes into town with a machine that causes guns to explode when fired. How long before all the gunslingers in town lynch the guy?

If this stuff exists at all, I'd expect it to be heavily regulated by the authorities.

3. What's the range on this stuff? If a mage walking down the street casts prestidigitation and the building next door explodes, that could be a problem...

All that said, I could see an interesting series of adventures, with the PC's attempting to track down this long-lost substance. Other groups are vying to get to it first, while still other groups are trying to stop it from being found. Sounds a lot like the Indiana Jones movies.

 

[Rechan]

1. How rare is this substance? If it's too common and inexpensive, everyone will have some. This could seriously affect the viability of characters who use magic.

My initial thought for all of this stuff is that it's relatively rare. That whatever the substance is, its existence (or where-ever it comes from) is owned by only one group. Let's say the Frost Giants in a certain mountain range have Frozen Nitro, or the Psionic Duergar of some cavern know where to dredge up "Magic Go Boom".

So the PCs are not necessarily the first to encounter it, but perhaps some of the first few survivors. This stuff is a closely held secret and/or a rare commodity (like Oil in the Middle East); the natives aren't going to let it go cheap, and aren't going to drain the barrel.

The only exception to this I'm thinking, is the Solid Rot. That stuff is likely created or native to the Shadowfell, and there's probably a lot of the stuff. It's just a challenge to get to. But Dark Creepers or Shadar-Kai might have a real stranglehold on the market.

 

[Desdichado]

What do all of you think?

I think that your assumptions about what gunpowder does to the campaign are incorrect. I frequently have Pirates of the Caribbean style flintlocks in campaigns I run. I like that vibe.

1) They don't really change the campaign world that often. There are tons of rules for firearms out there, and none of them that I'm familiar with really serve to make the standard conventions of fantasy obsolete.

2) Uh... no. A good cask or barrel of gunpowder is still only as effective as a mid-level fireball spell at most. A "grenade?" You'll have to do a lot of convincing to get me to believe that it's a) cheaper, and b) more effective than something like a flask of acid or alchemists fire already. Plus, if you carry around all that gunpowder in a world where even a very low level wizard's got burning hands, scorching ray and stuff like that? That's not an advantage, that's a liability.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Gunpowder revolutionizes the setting? China had gunpowder in mid first century AD. There's a bit of time between that and the 1500s.

 

[Rechan]

1) They don't really change the campaign world that often. There are tons of rules for firearms out there, and none of them that I'm familiar with really serve to make the standard conventions of fantasy obsolete.

Among other things, many gamers do not like guns, even flintlocks, in their games. I'd like to go for something unrelated to guns. Because, for one reason, I think it's relatively uncharted territory.

Gunpowder is a commodity that's purchasable and creatable. One of my goals, again, is to make it more of a set piece or a plot point, than a good to be purchased for individual use.

Gunpowder revolutionizes the setting? China had gunpowder in mid first century AD.

China used them for fireworks, not weapons and industry. Players certainly will.

 

[ferratus]

Of course china used them for weapons. It is pretty easy to know the potential of this stuff after the first person gets his fingers blown off.

It is just getting the right chemical mix, understanding the physics of expanding gases, and having the metallurgy to create a barrel which can stand the force of the explosion had to be developed first.

I don't know, if we're dealing with fantasy, why bother with just hot explosions? Why not a substance mined from the shadowfell that explodes with necrotic energy and rots things?