Differences? What have I missed?

[glass]

After a long hiatus, my group is soon to be getting back into our Age of Worms campaign, and we have decided to convert to Pathfinder RPG. I know about (and mostly like) the following changes:

• Changes to racial abilities (proficiencies, humans get +2 to one stat)
• Extra class abilities so classes get something every level and alternative options all the extra creature abilities.
• Domains now provide SLAs rather than spells
• Skill ranks work differently
• Various skills have been combined, and the Fly skill added.
• Point buy and XP tables are slightly different (presumably because the originals are Closed)
• Extra hit points (various options given).
• Cleave works differently. Probably other feats too, but I haven't gone through them in detail yet.
• Quicken Rods have a specific exception to allow Sorcerers to use them.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I also know about CMB and polymorph being broken up. EDIT2: And increased feat progression.


The trouble is, with hundreds of pages to go through, I'm bound to have missed something. So, what have I missed?


glass.


PS If there is a comprehensive list of differences somewhere, or a link to a previous thread (my CS ran out and cash flow won't allow me to renew ATM), even better!

 

[Voadam]

Class revisions to bump up class abilities for all classes.

Sneak Attack works against everybody but oozes, fighters get more powers, spellcasters get at will unlimited cantrips (except cure minor), turning is positive or negative burst effect now, barbarian's get crappy rage point mechanic sorcerers get bloodline powers, HD bumps for a lot of classes.

Save or dies spells changed to either damage or hold person save every round.

Bonus for favored classes instead of penalty for divergent multiclassing.

 

[bouncyhead]

The change to turning (channel positive/negative energy) is fundamental. 30' burst x/day (dependent on class/cha mod/feats) inflicts xd6 (level/feats again I think) damage on all undead + will save or feared. Effectively a simpler turn mechanic.

But the kicker (and it's a big one) is that all living creatures within the burst are HEALED a like amount. In effect this means that clerics (and paladins) get a load more healing that can be used easily out of combat and less easily in combat (you don't want to be healing all your enemies xd6!).

We've found that this seriously impacts on the 15 minute working day and makes clerics more fun to run (they actually get to cast their spells!).

I think they have already ditched the rage point mechanic for Barbarians due to bad playtest feedback. Think the new mechanic is round based with more features added through the levels.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The change to turning (channel positive/negative energy) is fundamental. 30' burst x/day (dependent on class/cha mod/feats) inflicts xd6 (level/feats again I think) damage on all undead + will save or feared. Effectively a simpler turn mechanic.

But the kicker (and it's a big one) is that all living creatures within the burst are HEALED a like amount. In effect this means that clerics (and paladins) get a load more healing that can be used easily out of combat and less easily in combat (you don't want to be healing all your enemies xd6!).

We've found that this seriously impacts on the 15 minute working day and makes clerics more fun to run (they actually get to cast their spells!).

Doesn't this also make them even more important to the game? Very good healing, powerful spells, good melee capabilities?
(I would say it's a neat upgrade to the Paladin, but for the Cleric, it sounds too good). Well, I guess I'll have to wait and see if I pick up the final...

 

[Aus_Snow]

barbarian's get crappy rage point mechanic

I thought Rage Points were being ditched. I'll have to see if I can track down the latest info again.

edit --- oops, as bouncyhead said.


A theme in this revision seems to be: 'sticking with a base class all the way will get you neat and shiny things'. Good idea, IMO. And, to a slightly lesser extent, sticking with multiple base classes should be viable, vs. all the prestige class options that, until now, have kicked so much more ass.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

A theme in this revision seems to be: 'sticking with a base class all the way will get you neat and shiny things'. Good idea, IMO.

Yes, but why?

 

[Aus_Snow]

Yes, but why?

Er, why what exactly?

If you mean 'why is that a good idea?' I probably can't help you there. You either 'get it' / see things that way, or you don't. Pretty much.

But I'll try. . .

A lot of people are/were not happy with how powerful (i.e., 'necessary') prestige classes became, relative to base classes. Why should a player have to take PrCs, just to keep up, and so on. In other words, why have higher levels in base classes at all, if they're just chaff.

This is something Paizo seems to be addressing with PFRPG. Good thing too, IMO.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Er, why what exactly?

If you mean 'why is that a good idea?' I probably can't help you there. You either 'get it' / see things that way, or you don't. Pretty much.

I'll grant you prestige classes-- let's get that straight up front-- but I certainly don't "get" why a Fighter 20 deserves some shiny reward for staying pure that a Fighter 19 / Rogue 1 doesn't deserve.

If you have to put a capstone at 20th level to entice players to get there, that is simply an indication that you have not properly balanced the class abilities at every level.

And IME folks who think there should be 20th level capstones are pretty much unable to articulate what specific design imperative is served by the capstone.

Is it a balance issue? Is it a flavor issue? And if it's a flavor issue, I'll be happy to walk you down memory lane (starting with 2e Complete Book of Elves) to explain why using the mechanics to enforce flavor is a bad idea.

(EDIT: The prior post may sound antagonistic so please don't read "You" there as calling you out or anything, Aus Snow.)

 

[bouncyhead]

Doesn't this also make them even more important to the game?...

Perhaps. As per all 3x the Cleric is pretty much critical. I think the PF changes are just a recognition of that fact - an attempt to give Clerics their spells back and free them up to contribute. I suspect a proper 'fix' for the Cleric thing is outside Paizo's ambitions.

In the two PF games we are playing (@ 6th and 13th) the Cleric still pretty much clunks around like the President, surrounded by twitchy bodyguards

That said, in our playtest games the new mechanic works very well (confounding my initial scepticism) - you get a dynamism in combats that stems from PCs frantically trying to get to safe distance so the Cleric can pop off another healing burst without helping the bad guys. And fewer of the dreaded overnight rests between combats to top up the Cleric's tank.

 

[glass]

Thanks all. The Cleric in particular, I'll need to read up on as the new character to the group is going to be one.


glass.