How long is 1 round?

[quaidbrown]

Let's say I have a "Stunning Surge" weapon (Magic Item Comp. 44).

"On a successful melee attack you can command this weapon to surge... it is stunned for 1 round).

Let's say they have init 10, I have init 5.

10: it attacks....

5: I attack and stun for 1 rnd.
<new round>
10: *stunned*

5: I attack? or it attacks first?

If it attacks first, the stun was rather pointless. Except that any teammates I may have could take advantage of his weakened defensive posture and he can't take AOOs.

What are the ins and outs of this? Depending on how it works, it would make a 2 round stun more than twice as powerful than a 1 round stun.

And most importantly, which page of which rule book covers this so I can show it to my players?

 

[aboyd]

If the stun effect lasts one round, then it lasts precisely to the same point where it started. If you hit it at the end of your turn, after you've taken a free action and a move action, then it will be stunned until the end of your next turn. That means it loses 1 turn for itself.

If you hit it at the start of your turn and then proceed to do a move action afterwards, it will be stunned until the start of your next turn.

 

[quaidbrown]

Do you have a rule reference for that? I've heard just about every possible answer to this question stated with every possible level of certainty.

 

[irdeggman]

From the SRD:

THE COMBAT ROUND
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character involved in a combat situation to take an action.

Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)

For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round.

Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

Or go to the PHB pg 138. The effect of the monk's stunning fist is a specific example there.

 

[quaidbrown]

Sweet. Thank you irdeggman.

I see it says:

For example, a monk acts on initiative count 15. The monk's stunning attack stuns a creature for 1 round. The stun lasts through initiative count 16 in the next round, not until the end of the current round. On initiative count 15 in the next round, the stun effect has ended and the previously stunned creature can act.

Now... at init 15, both the monk and the stunned creature seem to have equal rights to acting at init 15. As a DM I'd probably rule that whoever has the highest init modifier would win, since this is how ties are typically broken. This would make improved initiative or a high dex quite valuable to a character who has 1 round effects. I'd never thought of that before.

Anybody agree with this thinking?

 

[the Jester]

Now... at init 15, both the monk and the stunned creature seem to have equal rights to acting at init 15. As a DM I'd probably rule that whoever has the highest init modifier would win, since this is how ties are typically broken. This would make improved initiative or a high dex quite valuable to a character who has 1 round effects. I'd never thought of that before.

Anybody agree with this thinking?

Nope.

The way I have always read and played it, the stunned creature can act again, but it doesn't get to take its turn out of order. In other words, it can take AoOs again, but it's still your turn. The bad guy doesn't go again until 10 (in the example at the start of the thread).

 

[irdeggman]

Nope.

The way I have always read and played it, the stunned creature can act again, but it doesn't get to take its turn out of order. In other words, it can take AoOs again, but it's still your turn. The bad guy doesn't go again until 10 (in the example at the start of the thread).

Agree with this.

OP - nothing said the opponent's initiative changes.

There are few things that change when a charater acts in the initiative order being stunned is not one of them. Delay and Ready are the 2 most used - but both are conscious actions.

See PHB pg 137

Inaction: Even if you can’t take actions (for instance, if you
become paralysed or unconscious), you retain your initiative score
for the duration of the encounter. For example, when paralysed by a
ghoul, you may miss one or more actions, but once the cleric casts
remove paralysis on you, you may act again on your next turn.

I suggest reading the section on Combat in the PHB it actually does a pretty good job of explaining initiative order and actions.

 

[quaidbrown]

Thanks guys. That really cleared it up for me. The "previously stunned creature can act" thing spawned all kinds of assumptions on my part. It didn't occur to me that being able to act is different than having your initiative change.

Makes me like 3.5 combat just a little bit more. This has always bugged me and I never had a clear answer before Thanks again!