Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[malraux]

I could be wrong (probably am, which is why I'm going to talk to my lawyer), but it seems to me that even selling the power card DESIGN is a violation of their trade dress, especially if they (WOTC) start selling them.

I mean, you can't do that with Magic: The Gathering cards.

My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.

 

[Dire Bare]

I could be wrong (probably am, which is why I'm going to talk to my lawyer), but it seems to me that even selling the power card DESIGN is a violation of their trade dress, especially if they (WOTC) start selling them.

I mean, you can't do that with Magic: The Gathering cards.

Well, if you use the exact same power card template that WotC uses, then yeah, that probably wouldn't fly. Although various card magazines do mock up Magic cards all the time (although they may have done it with permission, I don't know).

But if you design your own power card template, even if it is strikingly similiar to the official cards, you should be okay. I'm pretty sure you can't copyright or trademark a form. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it!

 

[Urizen]

My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.

Good Points.

Thanks for the insights.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

The power card template is part of the GSL SRD and is ok to use as it is presented in the SRD.*




*Note your product must be compliant with other aspects of the GSL

 

[Scribble]

My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.

I think this is relevant (if you have signed the GSL)

Use the stat block templates identified and included in
the SRD as guidelines (not constraints) for producing your
own original content requiring such formatting. Since your
content will resemble like content in the Core Rulebooks, it
will be more readily usable. You may not reproduce the
blank stat block templates included in the SRD in a
Licensed Product.

If you haven't signed the SRD you might be in the clear... because it's just a form... But I don't know. I am not a lawyer.

 

[Urizen]

Well, if you use the exact same power card template that WotC uses, then yeah, that probably wouldn't fly. Although various card magazines do mock up Magic cards all the time (although they may have done it with permission, I don't know).

But if you design your own power card template, even if it is strikingly similiar to the official cards, you should be okay. I'm pretty sure you can't copyright or trademark a form. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it!

It's also something I've been noticing in 3pp supplements; graphic design/layouts that are strikingly similar to the 4e books. On one hand, I think the layouts are interesting and it's theoretically good for business to put out a product that has a similar feel to the core rules. But on the other hand, I know you can get into big trouble if you infringe on someone's trade dress.

 

[Treebore]

They copied/pasted, word for word, etc... straight from WOTC's books to create these power cards? If so, yes, they were clearly in violation of copyright law. Could they make power cards based on the 4E rules, written in their own words, done with their own layout design and art, etc....? I would think it would be worth asking a experienced IP lawyer about.

 

[Urizen]

The power card template is part of the GSL SRD and is ok to use as it is presented in the SRD.

Ahh!


Thanks, Scott, for clearing this up for me.

 

[Admiral Caine]

Not suprising then it got the smackdown though.

I mean I have a copy of counter collection digital from Fiery Dragon. (Awesome btw!) If I made a site where a DM could select the monsters in an encounter and have it generate a document that would populate with the monster pictures from that collection... Would anyone agree that's fair to FD?

Not me.

I reported the event.
I said I was disappointed, but I understood the legalities and the reasons behind doing it.

And I maintain it's quite alright to feel that way. I won't apologize for it. I haven't sworn never to give WOTC my business again. I haven't called WOTC any names. I haven't spoken disrespectful to one single poster in this thread. I acknowledged the legitimacy of WOTC's action.

You guys just want somebody to fight with, don't ya?

I'm not your man.

Feeling disappointed is just that, a feeling. I'm not a slave to my feeling, but I'm not going to apologize for it either. I like to think we all secretly hope for an easier world than the one we have. If that is irrational as one poster recently wrote, so be it.

So... I have reported some news. Make of it what you will. I'll kindly excuse myself from the rest of the thread.

 

[El Mahdi]

I wouldn't worry about character sheets, for the most part. Blank character sheets are essentially a form, something that isn't protected material. Anyone can pretty much make a form for anything, including for use with other peoples material, systems, mechanics, or products. However, it can't contain copyrighted IP on it. If your blank character sheet has pre-printed IP on it: such as feat descriptions; skill descriptions; powers, and lists of these items (except skills - I don't know of any skill that has a name that isn't a common use word) - in other words, verbatim text from WoTC products, then they could be targeted. If they also have drop-downs containing that information, they may be targeted. But, a basically blank character sheet, even one that has labels for things like: abilities, skills, hp's, etc. - should be okay since it's basically a blank form. However, filled out character sheets may also be open to targeting, but I don't know about this one. Maybe some of ENWorlds resident lawyer members could weigh in (paging joethelawyer).

Along the same lines, I would think (as some others have already said here) that blank power cards, and power cards with original fan-created material (not verbatim WoTC IP text) should be okay. You probably don't even need to sign the GSL, as long as you don't specifically mention Dungeons & Dragons, WoTC, Fourth Edition, etc., or use any copyrighted material or terms. Of course, everyone will know what they are for, but as long as you don't specifically say it, I think you'd be okay. Now if you start charging money for them, all bets may be off, but I'm not sure about that.

Of course though, as others have said before, even if you are legal, a cease and desist could be issued anyways. In which case it's up to you to fight it or not. If someone doesn't have the money to fight, even if they aren't doing something illegal, and shuts down because of it, I guess it doesn't really matter whether they were right or not. However, in all fairness I've never heard of WoTC doing this. (TSR did it as a matter of course, and it worked, except for the whole destroying the industry thing - but I've never heard of WoTC doing it.)