New Forgotten Realms designed by FR haters?

[Mournblade94]

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised. But I doubt it is true.

It couldn't exist on a website because I imagine WOTC would take it down.

Another community I am with is working on making a continuation of 3rd edition realms, but it is just transfered between people.

 

[Toben the Many]

If the poster is referring to the podcast I'm thinking about then the designers never said that they hated Forgotten Realms. Only that they didn't know why it was called "Forgotten" Realms when every inch of the campaign world had been written about, documented, and cataloged. What they wanted to do was return a sense of mystery and exploration to the Realms.

Far from "hating" the Forgotten Realms.

As usual, internet hyperbole strikes again.

 

[Jack99]

It couldn't exist on a website because I imagine WOTC would take it down.

Sorry, but what couldn't exist on a website?

 

[dmccoy1693]

I remember someone at WotC saying post-announcement/pre-launch that they were changing the realms for several reasons. Those reasons included that they had a difficult time to get people to write realms materials due to the sheer depth of established realms canon they would have to comb through to make sure they do not violate something somewhere. While it would be ideal to have realms junkies to write realms material, someone that familiar with the realms is few and far inbetween.

Plus they wanted to take D&D in a different direction: no vancian magic, elves have shorter life spans, dwarves no longer live inside of mountains/have darkvision, dragonborn, etc. Not having the game's signature setting follow in those changes would be a rather difficult sell.

They didn't change the realms because they "hated" the realms, but because it made good business sense.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Questions like that are best answered on Richard Bakers "Ask the Realms Designers" thread over at Wotc. He´ll answer every design question you can yield over time, and if it has already answered, some poster will tell you so (and usually point you to the answer). Its a useful thread (well, except when Razz begins to threadcrap, but thats another issue entirely).

 

[Filcher]

I imagine the WotC design conversation went like this:

1. Wow. 4E classes and monsters are radically different from 3.5. What does this do to the Realms?

2. Well crap. We can't retcon the whole thing. That would destroy ALL verisimilitude in the setting. We need some sort of story reset.

2a. You're kidding me. Another Realms Shattering Event?

2b. You have a better idea?

2c. No.

3. Okay. Well we could go back to the beginning to the Realms. Grey-box it again.

4. No, that would destroy all the history we've built up over the last 20 years. We don't want to wipe the slate clean, just make room for the new stuff.

5. Okay, let's go the other direction with a Realms Shattering Event. That explains the new mechanics.

6. And, as a bonus, it doesn't invalidate the history. For those players that know it, the history is still true, though distant. And for new players, the catalog of backstory isn't such a huge hurdle, because it's 100 years distant. Everybody wins.

====

Of course, everyone didn't win, but the Realms are huge IP gold mine for WotC. I don't think they treated it with disdain, or hired people that hated it to write it.

 

[Mournblade94]

I remember someone at WotC saying post-announcement/pre-launch that they were changing the realms for several reasons. Those reasons included that they had a difficult time to get people to write realms materials due to the sheer depth of established realms canon they would have to comb through to make sure they do not violate something somewhere. While it would be ideal to have realms junkies to write realms material, someone that familiar with the realms is few and far inbetween.

It was no more difficult to write in the realms than any other setting. You focused on one area, and took it from there. Even if you were not familiar with the realms you could write a module. if its a sourcebook, than the writer must be a bit more familiar. Still it was not difficult to become reasonably familiar with the realms in a few games sessions. I think WOTC changed the realms because they assumed intellectual laziness on the part of the fanbase.

There is no shortage of comic book writers, and they all manage to craft good stories in a vast shared world.

Plus they wanted to take D&D in a different direction: no vancian magic, elves have shorter life spans, dwarves no longer live inside of mountains/have darkvision, dragonborn, etc. Not having the game's signature setting follow in those changes would be a rather difficult sell.

yes this was one of the reasons. They made FR "generic."

They didn't change the realms because they "hated" the realms, but because it made good business sense.

I do not think they hated the realms.

Banking on gamers being intellectually lazy is not good business sense.

There were people that enjoyed the diversity and complexity of the realms. Yet there were people that enjoyed specific areas and new nothing of the lore outside of a 'zone'. There were then people that complained the realms were complicated and they did not want to play in the realms because they felt overwhelmed. WOTC catered to the third block of people that really didn't care, leaving the players that enjoyed the complexity; this sends a message whether true or false, that the old fans don't matter.

It is not that hard to follow a story like the Forgotten Realms. Some people on the internet treat reading and playing in the realms like it is learning Physical Chemistry. ITs not. Anyone could play in the realms. If a person really wanted to play in the realms, but did not because 'there is too much to read' that is just laziness.

Maybe other people can find forgotten realm websites in support of 4e, but all the fansites for Forgotten Realms that I frequent are pretty upset about the changes. Forgotten Realms anchored a good percentage of this niche in D&D now many of them are moving on. Paizo has a lot of the old realms creative force signing up with them. They will easily put out products of the same quality as WOTC.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Banking on gamers being intellectually lazy is not good business sense.

While Realms devotees love the intricate history of the Realms, most gamers can't even tell the difference between Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms (quote from Mike Mearls where he says as much). Then there's the question of bringing in the next generation of gamers. As someone that went from a casual gamer to a hardcore gamer less than 10 years ago, I am not interested in reading fiction or adventures from 20 years ago. So I am not going to be writing Realms material. I'm not alone on that.

That's not to say I'm opposed to research, but if I can choose writing an Eberron adventure or a FR adventure, I'd pick Eberron simply because there is much less material I have to know.

 

[Xyxox]

6. And, as a bonus, it doesn't invalidate the history. For those players that know it, the history is still true, though distant. And for new players, the catalog of backstory isn't such a huge hurdle, because it's 100 years distant. Everybody wins.

====

Of course, everyone didn't win, but the Realms are huge IP gold mine for WotC. I don't think they treated it with disdain, or hired people that hated it to write it.

And sadly, it looks like it has ended up as one huge bucket of sloppy fail.

 

[Scribble]

I think WOTC changed the realms because they assumed intellectual laziness on the part of the fanbase.

You're free to think what you want, but I don't think laziness had anything to do with it on anyone's side. I'm sure there were thousands of untold stories you can tell about the realms before. But sometimes it's nice to be able to tell the story you want to tell, and not the story you want to tell molded into shape by over 20 years worth of other stories. It's not laziness that drives that, just the desire to tell your story in your own voice.

All that stuff that happened in the realms in the past? Awesome, I can use that if I want to. I can look back on that and enjoy it if I want to. I'm also looking forward to the new stories though. The fresh ideas and original thoughts we'll see going forward.

Anyone could play in the realms. If a person really wanted to play in the realms, but did not because 'there is too much to read' that is just laziness

Again with calling people lazy... You say laziness, I say too much work for something supposed to be an activity someone does with his free time.