New Forgotten Realms designed by FR haters?

[El Mahdi]

I'd say, in FR's case, they agreed that something should be done.

And then they did it. So we have this thread.

As for hiring more staff... I doubt that WotC can afford to keep a full-time Realmslore Keeper on staff, given recent layoffs.

-O

But Dude, that would be the coolest job title EVAR: Realmslore Keeper. It would almost be worth a crappy job just to have that title.

 

[Obryn]

But Dude, that would be the coolest job title EVAR: Realmslore Keeper. It would almost be worth a crappy job just to have that title.

And if the Realms pulled in as much cash as Lucasfilm, I'm sure we'd have one!

-O

 

[RefinedBean]

And if the Realms pulled in as much cash as Lucasfilm, I'm sure we'd have one!

-O

Maybe WotC could license the Realms out to Lucasfilm. I'd like to see George Lucas' take on Drizz't.

Actually, I'd like to see ENworld's reaction to the news.

 

[Jack99]

Maybe WotC could license the Realms out to Lucasfilm. I'd like to see George Lucas' take on Drizz't.

Actually, I'd like to see ENworld's reaction to the news.

Something like

followed by a

or two. Then there will surely be a

or perhaps rather a thousand. A lot of people will be

or banned, while I personally will just be doing this:

 

[Mournblade94]

No.

I can't really spite people for disliking things in the new edition of FR (even though I like alot, though not all, of it) but this is a misinterpretation or straight out lie.

Let's look at the development team, shall we, who divided the work roughly equally between them?

Bruce R. Cordell
This is the single most reasonable designer to levy the charge against, but only because he's had little work in FR. He's also the one who's responsible for many of the things old-school FR players dislike the most - such as the new importance of aberrant creatures like aboleths (or as some call them, "tentacled beasties"), which, looking at his bibliography, seems to be a preoccupation of his. However, he's an FR novelist, which if anything should show an interest in the setting. He also worked on the Underdark supplement for 3rd edition, so he isn't alien to the setting.

Ed Greenwood
Ummm... anyone claiming Greenwood hates FR has as much credibility as someone claiming Lucas hates Star Wars (not to say that Lucas hasn't done some things that fans such as myself vehemently dislike). Greenwood created the setting and indeed, comments on forums suggest that he's responsible for much of what's in 4e - such as the return to player-focused FR or the primordials (their role in FR ties into an idea he'd had running around for some years called the "Sleeping Gods"). Not to mention that he's responsible for an entire chapter of the book - the one devoted to the new continent Returned Abeir. Greenwood very much likes FR and, from all indications, very much likes 4e FR.

Chris Sims
Chris Sims is somewhat unfamiliar with the setting, much like Cordell, but he's worked on a few sourcebooks such as The Shining South prior to his work on the FRCG. Overall, he's pretty new to WotC's roster in all regards, not just for FR. He did, however, work on Eberron in 3.5, which may be part of the reason why he might be interpreted as hostile to FR (which is ridiculous, if you ask me).

Rob Heinsoo
Rob Heinsoo was the creative lead for 4e in general so I can understand why those who don't like 4e would level blame against him. But he's not hostile to FR. In fact, he was one of the lead designers for the 3e FRCS as well as its Monstrous Compendium companion.

Logan Bonner
Bonner's another outsider imported from Eberron. This hardly means he's actually hostile, however.

Robert J. Schwalb
Robert J. Schwalb's originally from Green Ronin but he transferred over to D&D in late 3.5 for work on Tome of Magic and Fiendish Codex II. His work in 4e seems focused primarily on magic and its use, given his work on AP, AV, and DP. He doesn't appear hostile to FR, but I will admit he's not very experienced with either.

Rich Baker
Not to be confused with the similarly named Keith Baker and Rich Burlew . Rich Baker's been with FR since 2e. He's openly devoted to the Realms and openly supportive of it. He interacts with the fans on a regular basis and is understanding of their issues with changes to the setting. The only reason I can imagine someone would say he hates FR is because of his openly stating some issues with a few of FR's pre-4e characteristics (such as its transplanted Earth cultures or the sheer number and the concept of Ao).

I do not like the 4e realms and I can find little to redeem it (Though returned Abeir bothers me the least of all changes). Despite this, I would never say the designers changed the realms because they HATE it, or wanted to ruin it. I think the failure of the product is more an action of slapping the FR label on the front cover and using FR names, than the actual design ideas.

the flavour of the realms is completely changed.

 

[Imaro]

These were the design principles as stated in Dragon 366...

1. it’s exactly what it says it is: a world of ancient
realms to explore and discover.

2. it’s a thousand stories, all happening at once.

3. it’s a place where your character can be the most
important person in the world or die in anonymity.

4. it’s a fully realized world, full of history and
legend.

5. it’s a vibrant, ever-changing world that is constantly
moving forward.

6. it’s core D&D “plus.”

7. it’s contemporary fantasy.

8. it’s 50% all new.

9. We’re not retconning. We’re assuming that
everything that was, was.

Well I don't think they "hated" the FR... but some of these principles seem at odds with a concern or respect for any previous realmslore... notably number 7 & 8.

 

[Mournblade94]

Just to be clear... No, we don't.

We get paid by the word. Period. Any outside research or reading that we have to do is just that--outside.

If that becomes the case for the bulk of freelancers, Forgotten Realms becomes unsustainable. Now, that specific point of no return differs from freelancer to freelancer, and some begin with a greater knowledge of FR than others. But that doesn't change the fact that, as people move on and new people become writers, the settings that require heavy research beyond a certain point simply cease attracting skilled writers.

Is that what happened with FR? I have no idea. But claiming that we "get paid" to keep up with this degree of material is simply false.

I doubt that is what happened to the FR, because there were plenty of skilled writers right up to the end. The cormyr to anauroch campaign is great.

I understand it may not be cost effective for you to write for the realms. I am sure your a skilled writer and perhaps it was a loss for the realms you did decide it was not cost effective to write for the realms. There are writers willing to write for the setting.

Having worked on a licensed property in my previous job as a programmer, I can tell you that creating authorized content for an existing license is a pain in the ass. You pitch your totally awesome story, and then meet up with some guy from the company that explains in detail why your awesome story totally sucks for the license. You get reams of information that you have to cross-reference to ensure consistency. You get a list of "do's and don'ts." Then, when you finally get it all together, they excise one-quarter of it because they feel that it doesn't add value to the license.

Anyone suggesting that working on official products for a world with the depth of content that FR has (millions of words) is easy has never worked on something of that nature before.

I am really speaking towards an individual DM making modules or his own campaign material. For your own material there is no one that can tell you that this or that can or cannot be done.

As you know, if someone chooses to write for licensed material (And Lucasarts is the WORSE) what you explained above is the nature of that beast.

If you want to tell your own story and not have it conflict do not use licensed material.

So the solution to the problem is to find people who know a lot about The Forgotten Realms and have them write all the material? I guess all the Forgotten Realms uber-fans need to start stepping up.

Better get writing Mournblade94

I would write material for the old realms in a heart beat I am better off writing after I catch the writing call adverts, which I never seemed to do

 

[Jack99]

I do not like the 4e realms and I can find little to redeem it (Though returned Abeir bothers me the least of all changes). Despite this, I would never say the designers changed the realms because they HATE it, or wanted to ruin it. I think the failure of the product is more an action of slapping the FR label on the front cover and using FR names, than the actual design ideas.

the flavour of the realms is completely changed.

Technically, it's not really a failure just because you and the 200 people you hang out with on certain FR boards hate it. If the remaining 5 million players love it, it's actually a success.

(yes, numbers pulled out of my .... hat, but calling something a failure without having anything but anecdotal evidence is wrong)

 

[Mournblade94]

Technically, it's not really a failure just because you and the 200 people you hang out with on certain FR boards hate it. If the remaining 5 million players love it, it's actually a success.

(yes, numbers pulled out of my .... hat, but calling something a failure without having anything but anecdotal evidence is wrong)

Certainly it is not any sort of moral failing that I said ...
It is a FAILURE.

Yes it is opinion.

You must not have an easy time reading opinion pieces in papers, if you need to point out when someone offers opinions without empirical evidence.

Thank you for bothering to point out it was merely my opinion. I was sure I was speaking empirically.

 

[Piratecat]

Maybe WotC could license the Realms out to Lucasfilm. I'd like to see George Lucas' take on Drizz't.

Actually, I'd like to see ENworld's reaction to the news.

"Meesa hava big kitty and two pokey-sticks! But are vewwy lonely. Awwww." - Driz'zzz Binks.