Arcane Power excerpt: Summoning

[Deverash]

The healing surge loss when the summoning dies is an incentive to dismiss the creature before it dies, as I see it. Wizards (and ranged people in general) get hit the least as well, so they're using less of their healing surges. Unless the party is getting hammered, or something slips past the defender for a long while, I don't think the surge death-tax is going to cause the party to rest on it's own. Generally, it's the defender's surges that determine when the party quits.

 

[chaotix42]

I don't think it'll be a real problem, Sadrik. Summoned monsters have your hp = your bloodied value, and if it dies that costs you 1 healing surge. With regular healing powers from leaders it could cost the wizard one or two surges to heal that himself, so I think he's coming out relatively even.

The enemy could really lay into that summon to take it out quickly, so that could suck - get the benefit of a low-impact long-lasting daily for one round and then lose a surge too? Meh. But, the party might really benefit from the enemy's focus fire in the long run...

No matter how it turns out, Toughness, Durable, and a few NAD boosting feats seem like especially good ideas for summoners!

Generally, it's the defender's surges that determine when the party quits.

Heh, the defenders in my game usually have more surges than anyone else by the end of the day.

 

[Rechan]

The enemy could really lay into that summon to take it out quickly, so that could suck - get the benefit of a low-impact long-lasting daily for one round and then lose a surge too? Meh. But, the party might really benefit from the enemy's focus fire in the long run...

I ran a thread over in the Rules forum about DM responding to PC summons; should a DM ease up on it, because it's a daily, or have some monsters lay into it?

One of the considerations is that summoned monsters are much more versatile, in terms of tactical use. Use the summon to provide CA, or to pop it into existence behind the front line, so it can cause a distraction to some artillery/controller.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The healing surge cost seems fair to me. You are basically conjuring extra hit points. If an enemy spends actions to kill your summons, they aren't dealing damage to the party. If spend enough actions to kill your summons, you lose 1 surge. Actually seems quite economical.

 

[fissionessence]

Well I'm glad that a lot of people like this method of summoning, because I'm pretty disappointed.

They're just sacks of hit points and opportunity attacks (from the example we saw here). The druid ones were at least more interesting. While this guy is interesting tactically, as one poster pointed out, he's not very interesting in the sense of summoning a creature to run around and fight for you. It just stands there.

I understand the economy of actions thing, but it's still disappointing [to me].

~

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Well I'm glad that a lot of people like this method of summoning, because I'm pretty disappointed.

They're just sacks of hit points and opportunity attacks (from the example we saw here). The druid ones were at least more interesting. While this guy is interesting tactically, as one poster pointed out, he's not very interesting in the sense of summoning a creature to run around and fight for you. It just stands there.

I understand the economy of actions thing, but it's still disappointing [to me].

As DM, I wouldn't mind if the wizard/invoker/druid summons a creature out of combat in order to get info, or have the creature perform some non-combat task. Of course, this uses a daily power up, so the summoner may balk at the cost. But there are roleplaying opportunities there IMO.

 

[Obryn]

I understand the economy of actions thing, but it's still disappointing [to me].

~

I dunno, I don't think it's too rough as it stands. A minor action to move something around isn't too costly. And if their attack is another minor action, you can have it smack someone and still attack on your own. (Using a standard action to attack with a summoned creature can be questionable.)

Plus, they're another target for enemies - and the more they concentrate on your summons, the less damage your party will take.

-O

 

[Mercule]

Minor action for any command? Nice. That's the right balance, IMO. A standard for a standard is too steep, but minor makes good sense and feels balanced.

The healing surge cost does seem a bit steep, but if the wizard usually gets the opportunity to dismiss the critter, it might work out fine. I also kinda like the idea of using surges for powering magic, though I could see it getting out of hand.

I was extremely skeptical that 4e would ever see summoning that I was comfortable with, but this looks pretty good at first blush. I can't wait to see it in play.

 

[Greg K]

Well I'm glad that a lot of people like this method of summoning, because I'm pretty disappointed.

Same here.

They're just sacks of hit points and opportunity attacks (from the example we saw here). The druid ones were at least more interesting. While this guy is interesting tactically, as one poster pointed out, he's not very interesting in the sense of summoning a creature to run around and fight for you. It just stands there. I understand the economy of actions thing, but it's still disappointing [to me].

Agreed. I also don't like that your intelligence modifier is used a modifier to hit and damage in the case of one of the examples. What does my character's intelligence have to do with the creature's ability to strike or do damage? I also dislike the caster's con modifier being used for the Wasp's damage and secondary effect. It seems to me that the designers could have found another way to make the character's ability scores matter other than a bonus to hit and damage.



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[RefinedBean]

Wizards aren't doing much with their minor actions anyway, right? Asides from sustaining stuff.

Maybe there'll be a feat where your summons are immune to your own spell effects...