New Forgotten Realms designed by FR haters?

[Uzzy]

About the GHotR being a smash hit? No. I absolutely thought it was a smash hit based on fan response here at ENWorld, at RPGNet, and at the WotC forums. I mean, I do recall the usual five or six members of the "WotC killed my puppy!" crowd screaming that it was horrible but, outside of that, I recall the response being overall positive.

I don't recall any of this supposedly widespread outrage about the 4e content therein or the price of the book or anything else being trotted out in this thread. I recall the product receiving high marks frome people who weren't wearing their unfettered hatred of WotC on their sleeves.

Somebody suggested that WotC should have changed this and I honestly wondered why they'd want to. Why would you want to change a product to ignore the demands of the many and, instead, cater to the demands of the few? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I see. You have market research that shows that the 4th Edition Realms is categorically what the 'many' wanted? Interesting.

Yes, most people liked the Grand History. I loved it! Though, there are two points I'd bring up. Firstly, it's the diehard fans who would buy a product like the Grand History. Most of them appreciated that too. Heck, it's loved over at Candlekeep!

However, it's the last two pages of the Grand History that get the bad rep, thanks to them sticking the changes to the Realms there. Most of which were nonsensical, unneeded and violated all previous references to the gods in question (Seriously, Sune forcing Tymora into a forced marriage, and Tymora going along with it?)

So, when you and I say that the Grand History was loved by the fans, what we actually mean is 'It's loved by the fans, with the exception of the last two pages, which are utterly abhorrent.'

 

[Nightson]

So when every other book is 160 pages for the same price, even though they have less demand than a core book...? Not following the arguement. If saying that they charged more than they did for a "core book" then why are all of the other core books not cheaper than the $29.95 price tag?

Because demand for those is still high enough for WotC to use a bigger printing run I'd wager. A smaller printing run for a book that most people aren't going to buy is going to cost more. Of course I can't be certain that's why there's a price difference.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Because demand for those is still high enough for WotC to use a bigger printing run I'd wager. A smaller printing run for a book that most people aren't going to buy is going to cost more. Of course I can't be certain that's why there's a price difference.

But then my point again, every book that has a smaller print run would cost more no? And yet, every book with the same page count has the same price. So, no, not seeing it.

 

[jdrakeh]

I see. You have market research that shows that the 4th Edition Realms is categorically what the 'many' wanted?

No. I didn't claim that. My observations are just that. Observations. I never claimed that they were anything more. That said, if you want to play that card, where is your proof that WotC hates FR, that the majority of the market wanted FR to remain unchanged, etc? You can't provide that kind of data for your claims either, eh? That seems like a rather unfair double standard you have there.

So, when you and I say that the Grand History was loved by the fans, what we actually mean is 'It's loved by the fans, with the exception of the last two pages, which are utterly abhorrent.'

No, that's not what I mean. Please don't to tell me what I mean. You're in no position to do that. What I mean is that, prior to this thread, I've seen no massive outpouring of nerd rage over the last two pages of GHotR. And in this thread, I haven't seen that, either. I've just seen three or four posters saying that there is such a massive outpouring but utterly failing to produce it.

 

[Teemu]

What I mean is that, prior to this thread, I've seen no massive outpouring of nerd rage over the last two pages of GHotR. And in this thread, I haven't seen that, either. I've just seen three or four posters saying that there is such a massive outpouring but utterly failing to produce it.

There was a big outrage over the changes when they were revealed, on the WotC Realms boards. It was largely just the few regulars, though, a handful of very vocal fans who were disappointed. What I find interesting is that these diehard fans would've probably preferred a 4e FR campaign book with hardly any changes at all, basically a reprint of the 3e book with some 4e rules attached. That would've been a cash grab if anything.

 

[Shemeska]

What I mean is that, prior to this thread, I've seen no massive outpouring of nerd rage over the last two pages of GHotR. And in this thread, I haven't seen that, either. I've just seen three or four posters saying that there is such a massive outpouring but utterly failing to produce it.

This took around ten seconds to find. There were plenty of upset people regarding the 4e changes inserted into GHotR when it was released, that thread being just one example. Maybe you missed it all the first time around, but you may have just not been looking, because there was plenty here and a firestorm over on WotC and Candlekeep.

 

[Uzzy]

There was a big outrage over the changes when they were revealed, on the WotC Realms boards. It was largely just the few regulars, though, a handful of very vocal fans who were disappointed. What I find interesting is that these diehard fans would've probably preferred a 4e FR campaign book with hardly any changes at all, basically a reprint of the 3e book with some 4e rules attached. That would've been a cash grab if anything.

Actually, I'd have enjoyed a new campaign book that brought the setting up to date, did a better job of concentrating on key areas, like the Dalelands, Cormyr, Sembia and the Moonsea and threw in the 4th Edition Rules. Plenty of new stuff that could have been written.

 

[jdrakeh]

It was largely just the few regulars, though, a handful of very vocal fans who were disappointed.

Yeah, I saw that. I don't classify that as large. Loud? Absolutely. Large? No way. Pretty much the same thing happened here and at RPGNet. A handful of people screamed very loudly about how WotC were evil, money grubbing, hellspawn but everybody else seemed completely unbothered by the pages in question and generaly sung the praises of the book as a paradigm of value and quality.

 

[Uzzy]

No. I didn't claim that. My observations are just that. Observations. I never claimed that they were anything more. That said, if you want to play that card, where is your proof that WotC hates FR, that the majority of the market wanted FR to remain unchanged, etc? You can't provide that kind of data for your claims either, eh? That seems like a rather unfair double standard you have there.

Firstly, I never claimed that WoTC hates FR. The key designers of the new FR didn't have experience of the Realms, as shown by their lack of playtime in it. I'll further argue that many wanted the Realms to stay unchanged, going by consistently good sales figures for the FR setting books during the 3rd Edition times.

No, that's not what I mean. Please don't to tell me what I mean. You're in no position to do that. What I mean is that, prior to this thread, I've seen no massive outpouring of nerd rage over the last two pages of GHotR. And in this thread, I haven't seen that, either. I've just seen three or four posters saying that there is such a massive outpouring but utterly failing to produce it.

You should really look at Candlekeep someday. Plenty of criticism towards the last two pages of GHoTR, and the 4th Edition Realms. Or you could just look in the link Shem provided.

 

[D'karr]

This took around ten seconds to find. There were plenty of upset people regarding the 4e changes inserted into GHotR when it was released, that thread being just one example. Maybe you missed it all the first time around, but you may have just not been looking, because there was plenty here and a firestorm over on WotC and Candlekeep.

I guess about 12 people does not make "plenty" in my book.

In that thread I see what I see in all these threads. The same people arguing back and forth. Just because I can post 5,000 times in less than 2 hours does not make me "plenty" of people.

I don't see this groundswell of fury that threatens to overwhelm world. YMMV.