GTS 2009 D&D Seminar - the Rouse discusses D&D

[Piratecat]

This attitude is why I don't care for the new edition.

With respect, I'd strongly argue that this was also the attitude with OD&D, 1e, 3e and 3.5e. (2e tended towards more story-based railroads when it came to the modules, IMO.) It's hardly new.

 

[JoeGKushner]

With respect, I'd strongly argue that this was also the attitude with OD&D, 1e, 3e and 3.5e. (2e tended towards more story-based railroads when it came to the modules, IMO.) It's hardly new.

And that would be a winning arguement. 4e did not create the... dare I say it? Dare I use the old chestnut? "Kill it and take it's stuff." motto.

 

[Imaro]

With respect, I'd strongly argue that this was also the attitude with OD&D, 1e, 3e and 3.5e. (2e tended towards more story-based railroads when it came to the modules, IMO.) It's hardly new.

And that would be a winning arguement. 4e did not create the... dare I say it? Dare I use the old chestnut? "Kill it and take it's stuff." motto.

Yes, but what I think both of you are missing is that... "It's always been like that." becomes less and less of an argument with any validity as people gain easier access to other rpg's. I mean honestly I remember when D&D was the only rpg I knew about... but that time has long since passed and I tend to compare D&D, at least when it comes to my money, with a much wider range of games now.

In other words doing the same thing over and over again, because we did it last time will probably, slowly but eventually, loose WotC a significant portion of their customers (especially as I have the last edition where you gave me the exact same gameplay experience as before.) as they discover other games that meet their needs better or just accomodate a wider variety of desires. One of the reasons, amongst many, I enjoy Reign more than D&D is esoteric disciplines. Not only does Reign give me special combat maneuvers... but it gives me ancient secrets (special maneuvers and knowledge) with skills as well. D&D 4e could have easily done this with the 4e power structure... but they didn't and thus Reign offers me tactical combat and an interesting system for skills, while 4e doesn't... all IMO of course.

In the end the game should evolve, not just in it's presentation and media (DDI) but also in what it offers in gameplay. I think a prime example of this is when you look at SWSE vs. D&D 3.5, the addition of talents evolved the game into a direction where character concepts outside of combat had interesting choices and advantages.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

A word of caution from me, if people are going to turn this into another edition war thread I will not participate.

I am more than happy to answer questions but i don't want to debate the merits of one system over another.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Our marketing efforts will focus mostly on core hobby media and less on mass type media. This will include a focus on bloggers, podcasts, core RPG sites, and more "viral" web based media. Print will be minimal with some trade adversting and a few core magazines like KQ and Level Up.

I would like to note that MichaelSomething's blog is willing and able to preview any and all material you're willing to send! A power, magic item, or even the first ten words of a book or just the number of pages it has!

 

[alleynbard]

I saw Village of Hommlet, 4e, and my brain exploded. I read the rest of the thread but it all seems hazy and indistinct.


Actually, I am very excited about the Robin Laws essay on storytelling. While I have never needed a game to tell me how to roleplay and I never really put much stock in the "tactical board game" argument", I am happy that Wizards is making efforts to bridge that gap. Kudos!

Besides, anything written by Robin Laws is pure, DMing gold.

 

[ferratus]

I'm really glad that the electronic initiatives will continue to be a part of the 4e strategy. The character builder is probably the easiest way to get someone into the hobby who has not played 4e before. Reading the rulebooks is often too much of a barrier to people wanting to try it out, but going through the character builder is a good way to allow a new player to build a character, step by step, with all the latest options.

It also keeps me very interested in the latest developments of D&D. I've never been one to buy the 3e splatbooks, because I could never justify spending 20-30 dollars for one prestige class or one set of rules I liked. I am perfectly happy though to pay a subscription and have access to all the rules I'm interested in at the moment. When you factor in that it has new adventures and fluff articles included, I'm one happy customer.

 

[Nikosandros]

@Scott:

First let me commend you on recognizing that some people have an issue as far as 4e goes and it's very tactical combat centric nature. I think some people are confusing the issue, I don't think people necessarily don't want combat to be tactical... but want a robust system that handles things outside of combat in an interesting way as well. Many are equating it with an either/or thing... when it doesn't have to be.

[...]

Create powers that can influence skill challenges in a narrative way [...]

I agree. The classes, paragon paths and epic destinies all have nice fluff, but for the out of combat stuff often I have the feeling that there is little or no mechanical support for that fluff.

Just to make two examples with paragon paths, if I am a pathfinder or a master spy, I would expect some kind of mechanical support that shows in game how awesome I am at leading others through the desert of doom or at infiltrating the cabal that conspires against the king...

 

[The Ghost]

I mean honestly I remember when D&D was the only rpg I knew about... but that time has long since passed and I tend to compare D&D, at least when it comes to my money, with a much wider range of games now.

Agreed. Once upon a time D&D was all I knew. Now, it is competing against its previous incarnations, against other pen-and-paper RPGs, and against computer and console-based RPGs. What is it about this new edition that should "wow!" me? Why should I spend my money on it?

Among the people in my gaming group, we do perceive this edition to be a very good miniatures game and a fairly average RPG. If this rules set where placed in a product similar to Descent I would be very interested in buying. However, as an RPG it does not really interest me.

Edit: Just read Scott's post. I do not mean this to be critical of the new edition. Just saying how I would buy into the brand.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Scott,

I am not blogging yet. Send me a copy of the New Village of Homlet and I will start one up .

T1-4 was a great campaign and we had MANY hours of fun with it.

Scott A.