Monk Preview

[kenmarable]

Full Discipline Sidebar, second paragraph ...
"You can use the techniques of a full discipline power in whatever order you like, and you can choose to use one of the techniques and not the other during the round"

So you can activate an Encounter Full-Discipline power, use the movement technique for your move action, and use the attack technique for your standard action.

You are limited to ONE full-discipline technique per round (unless you spend an action point, per the sidebar's explanation), so you couldn't use the movement technique from one of your at-wills to augment the attack technique from a Full-Disciplkine encounter or daily power.

Basically, a Full-Discipline power gives you both a movement option and an attack option. You can take one, the other, or both. Often the two go stylistically hand-in-glove, and seem like a nifty combination.

And the trend towards embracing more complexity in the newer classes appears to continue with PHB3, and that makes me very happy.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think you choose one Move action or standard action when you use the encounter...and then it is used not both...although that would only make sense if there were at wills with out full discpline...

The number of times you can use a full
discipline power’s techniques during a round
is determined by the power’s type—at-will or
encounter—and by the actions you have available
that round. For example, you can use the
techniques of an at-will full discipline power as
many times during a round as you like, provided
you have enough of the required actions, but
you can use the techniques of an encounter full
discipline power once during a round.

I will redo the part I am baseing this on

you can use the
techniques of an at-will full discipline power as
many times during a round as you like, provided
you have enough of the required actions, but
you can use the techniques of an encounter full
discipline power once during a round

so maybe it means if you use the move you are stuck with a basic att, but if you use the attack you are stuck with normoal moves...


then again I am medicated and half asleep

 

[Stalker0]

I like the mechanics overall.

Flurry seems like an interesting striker mechanic (although no where near as good as the sorceror's but who is right?).

The combination of mobility and attacks is very well done with the full discipline idea.

As far as powers go, the at-wills are great (rarely do I like all 4 at wills for a class). The encounter powers are decent, the dailies are generally pretty meh (though I do like the one that increases the ongoing damage with each failed save).

I will say I hope they change a few of the names. I hate the name Centered Breath!

Ultimately here are my big questions:

1) Durability: The monk has a lot of mobility, but is lacking for AC. He can get more through TWF feats, but that appears to be it (though I guess we will see what the monk feats are like).

2) Striker Damage - Does it scale enough at high levels?


Finally, I think the full discipline description needs a rewrite. I read it twice, and apparently I completely misread how to use it (I thought for encounter powers you only got the move OR the standard, not both).

 

[drothgery]

No, Ki is no more. They decided that lumping all those classes together didn't make sense. More than likely you will see them scattered across other power sources.

Though they're not mentioning it here, my bet is that the other side of why the ki power source didn't make sense is that the 'oriental' spellcasters really belonged in the elemental power source if it was there.

Guesses for the OA classes, long-run

ninja - shadow striker
sammauri - paragon path open to any defender
shujenga - elemental leader
wu jen - elemental controller

It's hard to figure what psionic classes will make the cut, or if they decide to come up with something new. I mean, probable role of the 3.5 psionic classes pretty much breaks down as

psychic warrior - defender
psion - controller (a kineticist could be a striker, but my guess is they want to leave that kind of thing to arcane and maybe elemental characters)
wilder - controller (see psion)
soulknife - defender or striker
ardent - leader
divine mind - defender
lurk - striker

If I were to guess what they actually do in PH3, well, with WotC axing the ki power source it makes the two power sources idea more tenable, so...

monk - psionic striker
soulknife - psionic defender (soulknives figure prominently in Kalashtar culture, and putting two classes in the ECS would take up too much space, and there's a surplus of strikers)
[new class] - psionic leader
telepath - psionic controller

hexblade - shadow defender
ninja or assassin - shadow striker
necromancer - shadow leader
shadowcaster or beguiller or illusionist - shadow controller

 

[chaotix42]

No, you can definitely use both, as long as you have the actions available. So, you could close distance with the Move Tech of a Full Discipline power and then use the Attack Tech, or attack and escape with the Move Tech.

Elves, razorclaw shifters, and githzerai will make great Centered Breath monks. Interestingly, the 1st page art depicts a githzerai monk (along with another monk of an unknown race - kinda genasi-like)!

 

[Rechan]

=I really want lots of Pseudoscience in my Psionics. I am hopeful that since it is more one included within Psionics and not built into it from the beginning will mean there is Pseudoscience.

Gunna have to disagree with you there, FS.

 

[Cadfan]

I am... somewhat disappointed. I like the monk for what it is, I guess, but I'm overall unhappy. The class will probably see play in my group, and maybe I'll even be the one to play it. But I wish things had worked out otherwise.

The death of ki is a major disappointment to me. I consider D&D's ongoing inability to craft a decent unarmored (or at least minimally armored) guy with a katana to be a major failing. I had hopes that ki would solve this.

I'm not a fan of making the monk's body into an enchantable object, either. I see why they did it, I just don't like it.

I assume that nunchaku and the like are a subcategory of "club" or something. They'd better be, because making monks less typecast as "asian" by deleting all the asian material from the game is... vaguely offensive?

It says "psionic magic" everywhere.

I don't like "Focused Expertise." Specifically, I don't like that it isn't available for everyone, including Swordmages and Clerics and Paladins.

"Full Disciplines" are written in a confusing manner. Expect a lot of questions about these. I still don't get whether you can use an encounter full discipline in both its move and standard action forms in a given round. The section that seems to say you can only use one of the two pluralizes itself in a weird way. UPDATE: One of the powers was phrased in a way that clued me in. You can use both.

I think its incredibly clumsy to make melee touch attacks that function as implement attacks while also making melee weapon attacks that function as weapon attacks. This doesn't bother me with existing classes that do something similar, as there's generally a firm distinction between the two categories: if a swordmage stabs you, thats a weapon attack. If he flings a sheet of fire across you and your allies, that's an implement. The monk doesn't maintain this differentiation, and thematically you're doing the same thing both ways- hitting a dude.

And... there are powers that grant bonuses to other powers that differentiate between melee weapon attacks that you deliver with your hands and melee touch attacks that you... deliver with your hands. Requiring you to actually know which attacks are which. Thanks guys.

I'm not feeling the theme on some of these. Teleportation out of nowhere in the epic tier? Phasing? I feel like these should be worked in at lower levels, or built up to in some way, not dropped in out of the blue. I didn't like this about the 3e monk either. I guess the "psion-monk" theme makes it a little more plausible, but I still don't like it. Maybe the powers I'm not seeing weave this in better.

Color me not particularly happy, I guess. The flavor doesn't seem to come together well. Individual powers feel isolated and alone, instead of part of a larger context. The psionics feel like a halfway developed unwelcome intrusion into what I wanted to see. It seems a bit all over the place, and a bit more high-magic than I would have liked to see.

Maybe the strength based sub path will be more to my tastes, and maybe the unpreviewed powers will integrate things better.

 

[Rechan]

Man, I just love the idea of using Flurry of Blows to kill adjacent minions.

That being said, minion-loving DMs are going to hate Centered Breath monks. Dare you put more than one minion against the Monk? If he hits one, he kills two.

I don't think that's how the power works.

I thought that, you can only HIT one target with the power. Anyone else within your range is just SLID.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Gunna have to disagree with you there, FS.

Lol, np, I know Pseudoscience especially in D&D is not everyone's choice. Though I hope I can just sneak in one class with Pseudoscience flare

 

[chaotix42]

II don't like "Focused Expertise." Specifically, I don't like that it isn't available for everyone, including Swordmages and Clerics and Paladins.

It is available to all classes. It has no pre-reqs.