Pathfinder 1E Power and Pathfinder Classes - Forked Thread: Pathfinder - sell me

[Voadam]

WOW...ok so you guys don't want to sell me at all on this...

This is not the sell me thread.

 

[Mournblade94]

So again...they have done nothing to stop CODzilla, BUT they want to claim to have fixed the system.

Since I never saw that as a problem I am really OK with that.

Oh and they can't address 99% of the game, so they are just makeing anew one...

They are addressing the problems within the core. THat is enough for some. I even think eliminating Save or DIe is too much. I thought they were FUN.

there are wizard and cleric spells that meka you better at everything...so a party of casters is much better then one with none.

Party 1 Fighter, Rouge, Ranger
Party 2 Cleric, Wizard, Druid

look it is simple one is MUCH better then the other...

Once again... the game is about so much more than balance. Or at least it used to be.

 

[Mournblade94]

there is no point to contunue this discussion since you belive I ignoreed somethinge that does not exsit. the first evidence is from this same post

by the wway it helps...although not much becuse it only address some of the problem


maybe you two ashoul look back at my first post in this thread...it responded to this:



however as usual I am being attack for habing the nerve to ask HOW.
so again I ignored NO EVADANCE since th first time anyone responed to me with any was the same post they accused me of ignoreing it.

No they provided evidence you did not LIKE. And it was ignored because it was not liked.

By the way I am sick of hearing about what a good company Piazo is. I don't care if they donate 100% of there profits to feed starving orphens...I want to discuss the product, but it again seams clair to me that you do not.

Actually I think they are a fantastic company but then we would have to assign values to great, fantastic, and awesome. I read both of these threads, and I can say that the product was discussed pretty thoroughly as far as the BETA goes. If you want more than than you have to wait until the full game is released.

so go support your company, but realize that I am trying to find reasons to buy the book and all you are doing is giving me reason not (being alienated byt eh badwrongfun police)

so goodbye I am done with this...I will stay with my 3.5 and 4e and rifts and M&M and gurps and WW

It seems as though you entered the thread with no desire to buy the book. It seems as though no matter what was said to you, you were not going to buy the book. That is OK there are many people that will.

 

[zag01]

2 words Divine Metamagic...mo extra levels so


Righteous Might- 5th level
Divine Power- 4th level
sheild of Faith- 1st
Greater Magic Weapon- 3rd

so now what??? 10th level caster cou;ld do it...oh AND heal, AND throw fire from the sky, AND raise the dead...

A 10th level caster can't do all those.

Divine Metamagic is fine, no banning required. It costs turn attempts to use, 7 each for persistant spell.

So if your player wants to burn all their feats on extra turning then they could get all of those persistant around 18th level (earlier based on build). But,again not comparative to a 12th level (anything else).

 

[billd91]

there is no point to contunue this discussion since you belive I ignoreed somethinge that does not exsit. the first evidence is from this same post

by the wway it helps...although not much becuse it only address some of the problem

So.... the things I pointed out help, but they do not exist?
Are you trying to say that if they don't fix the persistent spell problem then they've done nothing to fix CODzilla? Or that if they haven't gotten rid of either combat buffs, or flame strike, or a bunch of other spells then they've done nothing to fix CODzilla?

Or are you just saying that they haven't done enough to fix CODzilla and your use of "nothing" was a hyperbolic construction?

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what your argument here is about and what you're trying to get out of it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

No they provided evidence you did not LIKE. And it was ignored because it was not liked.

link please...anything other then the one that actualy talked about the spells...you know the one that I was told in that was told i was ignoreing in...I see one, were I was told things could not be done that could be, and one that told me my group was playing wrong (every book should be case by case and I should bane whole sets of options even when I play I guess)

It seems as though you entered the thread with no desire to buy the book. It seems as though no matter what was said to you, you were not going to buy the book. That is OK there are many people that will.

did you read the part were I said I am looking for a reason to buy the book and can not find one...then someone say X is happening and I said X would be a good reason...then arguments broke out ...

you knwo what I hope you realize you are pushing people away from suppotying this company you so love with these statements...

A 10th level caster can't do all those.

Divine Metamagic is fine, no banning required. It costs turn attempts to use, 7 each for persistant spell.

So if you're player wants to burn all their feats on extra turning then they could get all of those persistant around 18th level. Again not comparative to a 12th level (anything else).

I don't have all of the numbers infront of me but starting 9th level characters can do it...the stupid opp board found it very easily. I know it is a magic item that gives extra turns...
but again fine take persitant out...it is still multi fights in a row where the cleric is a better melee combatant then your focused melee combatant...



So the fix is that they changed divine power...but that leaves other spells from later books unsloved becuse they can not touch them...so it leaves the buyer with two options
1) going through every book (in some cases this is alot and a large endever) to compair and change and test feats, spells, and classes

2) disregarding there old books

that seams to me to be the oppsite of backwards compadability...

good bye

 

[yesnomu]

There're items called Nightsticks that let you get extra turning attempts. Them + DMM was what kept the CO board cheese going back in the day. (Of course, these days its hurting yourself with spiked gauntlets to fuel weapon attacks, so maybe we're not making so much progress after all)

I approve of nerfing of OP spells (but isn't Ray of Enfeeblement still in the game? That needs a whacking), but it's definitely true that the infinite spell lists of the divine casters was a major factor in them breaking the game in half. Fixed and restricted spell lists were a much better idea--you won't see many Warmages or Beguilers called broken.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So.... the things I pointed out help, but they do not exist?

no what I am saying is you gave the evadaince that helped (spell changes) in the same post you claimed I ignored things (How could I ignor what you had not posted yet)

Are you trying to say that if they don't fix the persistent spell problem then they've done nothing to fix CODzilla? Or that if they haven't gotten rid of either combat buffs, or flame strike, or a bunch of other spells then they've done nothing to fix CODzilla?

I am saying short of an almsot complete rewrite I do not belive it can be fixed, but it was claimed on page one it was, so I inquared as to how (Hopeing I was wrong). See 2e and 4e do not have codzilla, but 3e does...it is ingrained int he system and (IMO) a flaw. when I herd said flaw was fixed i thought "Great I can hardly wait"

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what your argument here is about and what you're trying to get out of it.

then let me spell it out for you. I like the people at piazo, but up until now not most if any of there books (I like there flufl but almsot none of there crunch). So now with this new book that people are claiming will keep 3.5 alive (Something I would be happy to see 2 diffrent D&D games runing at the same time) I want to belive it. So I am going to these threads and say "Ok tell me how this works and why I should buy it"
BUT all that happens is that people say "They did X great thing" and I respond "Great lets hear how" and I get nothing I consider to be a fix.

[sblock=examples] Examples: I felt there was little reason to play a fighter 1-20, I was told they fixed it...what I found was there is still little reason to do so
I felt with 4e I had to forget about all my cool ad on books for 3.5 that I love, I was told they would work with backwards compadable PF...what I found was it was so changed that alot of it wont work without overhauls (and I can over haul any 3.5 book to 4e if I spen enough time)
I felt casters were way over blown with CODzilla beign the worst affended , I was told in this post page one they fixed it...and what I found is "Ban this, adjust that, Don't blame piazo for WotC mistakes"[/sblock]

you can also find I have said many times before I have collected dragon mags since the 80's...the only time I stoped is when I felt Piazo went overboard with it. When I said this one of the piazo main guys came down and even talked to me in a very poilt way and ask I give this a try. I have the beta downloaded, and found it to be too hard to run games that are not 'core only'
so now becuse these very nice people asked me to ty it I am again trying, and finding no one can give me a hard example of a fix...

 

[GlassJaw]

it's definitely true that the infinite spell lists of the divine casters was a major factor in them breaking the game in half.

It's not the infinite spell lists that are the problem. It's the infinite number of books that have come out with more and more broken spells for players to cherry-pick from.

I used to spend a lot of time on the WotC Character optimization board. Much of the traffic on that board can be squashed by any DM with a spine. All it takes is a simple "no" to a player that is trying to exploit some blatantly over-powered loophole that was conveniently allowed to slide through the cracks by a WotC designer.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Post removed by Admin. A good rule of thumb when posting is "don't be a dick." Considering the cheap shot here, I'm not so sure you succeeded. Keep the snark under control next time, please. ~ PCat