Power Source Differentiation

[Sadrik]

There is some dislike, by many, as to how the power system feels overly gamey and does not model how characters power sources would really work. The following rules are presented to allay that and make each source unique and offer a different feel in-game for each power source. Each is better in different situations and hopefully more fun.

Power Source Differentiation
To activate an encounter power it costs 2 for an encounter and 5 for a daily power.

Adrenaline
Slow to build but endless in its devastation…
Adrenaline powers are not initially available at the beginning of an encounter. Instead access to them builds up as combat endues in the form of adrenaline. Once enough Adrenaline has built up it can be spent it to activate their encounter and daily martial powers. All Adrenaline points fade after an encounter.
If you damage an opponent in a round you add 1 Adrenaline and when you take damage you gain 1 Adrenaline. If you score a critical hit you add an additional Adrenaline.
Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Warlord, Barbarian


Rites
Complex training in the arcane ways…
Rite powers are available to those by way of knowledge of arcane rituals. They require special components to perform and a successful Arcana skill roll. The special components cost must be paid for at each level the practitioner levels up and is equal to the cost of a ritual of that level. The special components represent new magical ingredients that the practitioner uses during the rituals and are enough to get by until the next level. The base Target Number to successfully complete a rite is 15 + ½ your level.
If the components are missing it has -5 to succeed. An encounter power gives -2 and a daily gives -5. Each successful ritual gives a 2 Rite penalty points for the rest of the encounter.
Classes: Wizard, Bard, Spellsword, Artificer


Pleas
Relationship with the source of your power is paramount…
Some powers are accessed by constantly pleading with the source of their power. Your divine Plea is ½ your level +10. When using a power they roll a Plea check to receive that power. The roll must be under your Plea total for your prayer to be heard. Use your power as normal with a made roll. You then subtract the powers cost from your Plea, note that Plea can go negative. On a failed Plea roll you may use an at-will power or basic attack instead.
After a short rest you recover your Plea but reduce it by 2 for each short rest you have taken. After an extended rest your divine Plea is reset to its maximum.
Classes: Cleric, Evoker, Avenger, Paladin, Warlock


Heroic Feats
Masochist
You gain 2 Adrenaline instead of 1 when you take damage.

Reduced Component Costs
Your component costs are ½ at each level.

Pure Connection
You only lose 1 Plea after each short rest


To make these game rules work easily at the table, I would suggest using tokens or poker chips during game play. Perhaps blue chips representing 5 points and white 1 point.

Last thing, I know these rules are a bit sweeping. They add differentiation between the power sources! I am well aware that they are not as balanced as before. This is the goal, I want each power source to be better in different situations. Divine power is better when you have lots of time, Arcane power can sustain longer but then dry up for the day and finally martial power is good as the battle wears on. These are all unique and they all seem to be a pretty good payoff story-wise and game-wise by my estimation.

Enjoy!

 

[Sadrik]

Attunement
Knowing your environment is important to your power…
Attunement powers come from the world around and being able to tap into that natural power of the environment or simply gaining insight into the battlefield. Beginning with no Attunement practitioners must attune themselves to the environment before they use their powers. Practitioners may never have more than 5/7/9 Attunement depending on their tier. All Attunement points fade after an encounter.
During an encounter practitioners can attune into their environment as a standard action, this adds 1d4 Attunement points.
Classes: Druid, Shaman, Rogue, Warden

Heroic Feat
Primal Tap
You roll now roll 1d6 instead of 1d4 when Attuning.

 

[Sadrik]

Focus
The mind must be focused and sharpened…
Focus powers come from within with sharp dedication and keen will. The mind is fragile and when wielding such power it is important to maintain that bastion or the power cannot be accessed. Practitioners may never have more than 5/7/9 Focus depending on their tier. If a Focus practitioner ever has no Focus they are dazed until the end of their next turn.
A practitioner can take a minor action to focus their mental energies and gain 1 Focus back.
Classes: Monk, Sorcerer



Heroic Feat
Meditation
After a short rest where you are able to meditate you gain a temporary +1 Focus point.

 

[Sadrik]

Here is the abbreviated capacitor model back by popular demand.

Capacitor
After an extended rest your Capacity is reset to character's prime stat + 1/2 your level.
After a short rest you regain 1 Capacity.

Heroic Feat
Recharge Capacitors
You gain 2 instead of 1 Capacity after a short rest.

Caveat note:
InspiredOgre believes adding full level actually models the system better at the upper levels. This also adds a new cost of 3 for all utility powers. We also discussed adding a cool down period for powers so that they are not spammed. Encounters 1 round and dailies 2 or 3 rounds. Perhaps utilities could be 2 rounds and dailies 3 rounds.

 

[Garthanos]

*Bump*

I was hoping to get some thoughts on this or at least some status quo argument!

Sorry my status quo argument is currently out back being flogged... I like the Martial Adrenaline it seems to work but for only some cases though... there are certainly some martial moves that are tricks which get revealed (or not when used well or poorly) See the rogue trickster ability...and maybe a similar aborted attempt (for a really poor roll).

Is a Warlords charismatic push adrenaline well maybe... is a foxy ranger moves maybe not...

 

[Garthanos]

Primal Attunement
Relationship with your environment is important…
Primal power comes from the world around and being able to tap into that natural power. Primalists begin with no Attunement and must attune themselves to the environment when they want to use their powers. Primalists may never have more Attunement than their primary ability modifier.
During an encounter Primalists can attune into their environment as a standard action, this adds 1d4 Attunement points.

Heroic Feat
Primal Tap
You roll now roll 1d6 instead of 1d4 when Attuning.

Bet barbarians mix and match adrenal response

 

[Saeviomagy]

The problem here is manyfold:

1. You're adding a lot of complexity to the system.

2. You're adding conflicting requirements to PCs. Assuming that your limits actually ever apply, fighters don't care about rests, wizards want to have back-to-back short rests for the whole day, while divine characters never want to rest until they've used up all they have.

3. You've totally neglected the flavour of many classes. A rogue pouncing from the shadows suddenly needs to fight for 5 rounds before he can garrote his target! A warlock needs to sit around resting in order to be granted powers from his patron. A warlord needs to get his heart pumping before he can put together a logical strategy. A barbarian needs to meditate to become one with nature in order to rage out.

4. You haven't even thought about higher level combat. Once their powers are filled out, characters should be throwing out 4 encounter powers and a daily per combat (more or less). Martial and divine characters will never be able to do this, while wizards will, but will require 10 rests between each encounter.

Finally: the flavours you've ended up are different to what you state. Arcane power just requires you to sit around doing nothing all day. Divine power burns up quickly and is unpredictable (and makes any divine character crap comparitively). Martial power appears to only have taken fighters into account, and totally doesn't make sense when applied to any other martial class.

I think the payoff here is slim to nil, and the problems are massive. The end effect is just going to be that players don't get to use their cool powers when they want to, and have to track another number, and argue with other party members about whether to rest or not.

The only outcome I can see arising from this system is a return to the 1 encounter workday, because that's the only common ground that the party will have.

Oh, also: why would you use any power source except for arcane or psionic?

Not to mention that psionicists MUST have a 20 in their prime score, or they cannot use dailies.

I'm sure I could go on, but suffice to say, you need to actually think this stuff through in terms of how a game will play out.

 

[Sadrik]

Sorry my status quo argument is currently out back being flogged...

LOL

I like the Martial Adrenaline it seems to work but for only some cases though...

Yes it seems to work better for the melee guys, and in fact works quite well for them. I can see swordmages, barbarians and avengers working off of adrenaline too. Rogues might be better with a class feature that gives them 1 or 2 Adrenaline for every round they are not in combat. Basically the sniper or assassin idea - sit back and aim your shot.

there are certainly some martial moves that are tricks which get revealed (or not when used well or poorly) See the rogue trickster ability...and maybe a similar aborted attempt (for a really poor roll).

Sorry, not sure I am following you here.

Is a Warlords charismatic push adrenaline well maybe... is a foxy ranger moves maybe not...

I can see the warlord building up with adrenaline and letting out a triumphant roar, sure that totally makes sense, no more and no less than it normally does.

Bet barbarians mix and match adrenal response

Is there a flavor reason why barbarians are primal? I don't have phb2. Are they primal simply because primal sounds like it should be a barbarian? My sense of the primal power source is that it is sort of the druids forest kind of shtick. Is that right? Should barbarians have been martial?

 

[Sadrik]

The problem here is manyfold:

Thanks for your reply!

1. You're adding a lot of complexity to the system.

The complexity is purely on the players, in many cases the powers will get used less often and so the complexity of resolving all of the mini tactical effects are removed. I don't think that it will be too complex to handle. "I was hit I gain an adrenaline. I made my plea roll I give up 2 tokens for an encounter effect.

2. You're adding conflicting requirements to PCs. Assuming that your limits actually ever apply, fighters don't care about rests, wizards want to have back-to-back short rests for the whole day, while divine characters never want to rest until they've used up all they have.

Yes.

3. You've totally neglected the flavour of many classes. A rogue pouncing from the shadows suddenly needs to fight for 5 rounds before he can garrote his target! A warlock needs to sit around resting in order to be granted powers from his patron. A warlord needs to get his heart pumping before he can put together a logical strategy. A barbarian needs to meditate to become one with nature in order to rage out.

Hmm, I see your point certain classes might make more sense as a different type of power source. For instance, a warlock might make more sense to use the divine method. A rogue and ranger might make more sense to be a primal way of attuning to the encounter and of course a barbarian makes the most sense with adrenaline.

4. You haven't even thought about higher level combat. Once their powers are filled out, characters should be throwing out 4 encounter powers and a daily per combat (more or less). Martial and divine characters will never be able to do this, while wizards will, but will require 10 rests between each encounter.

Well I have thought about it and much of my ideas scale up or naturally don't need it. I would take up arguments to try and balance these power models better and more closely together.

Finally: the flavours you've ended up are different to what you state. Arcane power just requires you to sit around doing nothing all day.

Well, yeah they get all of their arcane power by the day, so can go nova but won't have the juice after that without lots of resting (studying in the case of a wizard). In the best case scenario the party will wait for you, in other cases you will have to push forward and manage your resources much better.

Divine power burns up quickly and is unpredictable (and makes any divine character crap comparitively).

Taking the hypothetical 20th level cleric, he has a plea score of 20 and can use an encounter power for 2 dropping him to 18 (makes the roll automatically btw) and then use a daily dropping him to 13 and another encounter to 11...
Yeah I can see you they need some bump up.

Martial power appears to only have taken fighters into account, and totally doesn't make sense when applied to any other martial class.

I think fighter, ranger and warlord all work well with the adrenaline mechanic. Rogues might work better using a reflavored Attune method

I think the payoff here is slim to nil, and the problems are massive. The end effect is just going to be that players don't get to use their cool powers when they want to, and have to track another number, and argue with other party members about whether to rest or not.

Well this depends I think this a major stumbling block for those who do not like 4e. This type of rule sets up a method to counter the gameyness of the current system and inject a modicum of flavor into the current system with how their powers work. Are the numbers right and perfect - no. I would like to try and get them better and more balanced between one another.

The only outcome I can see arising from this system is a return to the 1 encounter workday, because that's the only common ground that the party will have.

I can see that arcane types would want to do that but really all four other types absolutely do not. They simply do not need to rest, patently false.

Oh, also: why would you use any power source except for arcane or psionic?

Arcane has its own drawbacks as you have pointed out already. Nuke everything quick and then you need to go back and rest. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Not to mention that psionicists MUST have a 20 in their prime score, or they cannot use dailies.

This seems to be an unintended drawback, primal also has the same drawback/problem. I would like them to be able to use dailies so perhaps their limit should be 5/7/9 by tier and get rid of the prime ability mod limit.

I'm sure I could go on, but suffice to say, you need to actually think this stuff through in terms of how a game will play out.

I do, I know. This is why I posted it to the community. I appreciate your remarks, you have given me some thoughts on what to fix:
Plea goes away too quickly during an encounter.
Psionic and Primal cannot use dailies without a 20+ prime stat.

Please give more feed back

 

[Garthanos]

Sorry, not sure I am following you here.

Trickster’s Control :When making the first attack roll
for an encounter or daily attack power if you roll an 18
or higher on the d20, that power is not expended.
its a 24th level feature of ... one of the rogues paths.

The premise is an extraordinary performance means you were so slick with your trick that nobody realized how you did it even.

House rule based on it's inverse

Aborted Attempt:
Some times a really bad roll means you just didnt have the opportunity when you thought you did, if you are careful you can change your mind without tipping your hand or misaligning spell components or whatever.

For powers with attack rolls, if the first attack roll is 1 you may abort your
performance and simply loose the action (the power is unspent and no miss or effects occur).

Careful Combatant : increase the threshold at which you may abort an attack action, on a roll of 1 - 3 you may abort (I consider whether allowing it to be taken twicce to allow 1 - 5)

Is there a flavor reason why barbarians are primal? I don't have phb2. Are they primal simply because primal sounds like it should be a barbarian? My sense of the primal power source is that it is sort of the druids forest kind of shtick. Is that right? Should barbarians have been martial?

Tribal spirit's and flavorful rages that emulate totems... its a totemic thing.