Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder (PFRPG) bloat (was Forked Thread: What exactly is OGL bloat?)

[ggroy]

Especially with print on demand being a viable option (wasn't even heard of in 2001 rpg market), a new company would be foolish to jump straight to traditional print runs and distribution

I remember back in 2000-2001, the only popular Print-On-Demand services at the time I heard of, were typically universities and textbook publishers. For the case of a university, it was typically binding a professor's course notes into a softcover book and being sold at the university's bookstore. In the case of textbook publishers, a professor could order several chapters from different books (from the same publisher) and have it bound into a custom softcover textbook for their course. Other than these two big cases, there wasn't much else which was easily available for print-on-demand type books.

I don't recall pdfs being very popular either at the time, for selling books of any type. The only places I found pdfs of rpg books in those days, were typically on those pirate file sharing networks (ie. Kazza, etc ...).

With the PDF and POD markets actually being viable for rpgs these days, it wouldn't be surprising to eventually see a 4E and/or PFRPG bloat in these particular markets. Hopefully the better stuff which show a viable sales track record in the PDF and/or POD markets, may eventually end up as printed books on the shelves of FLGS.

 

[gamerprinter]

a bit more

I mentioned my first product will be available in a few weeks, but since Pathfinder is not realease yet, the first adventure, "The Gift" will be published OGL, once PF is ready, it will be republished PFRPG compatible.

I am working with Dementia 5 Publshing House, who currently have OGL PDF downloads for several product: The Legacy of Doku, The Stone of the Daine Sidhe, and a Map Pack.

I'll post an official thread once my product is released!

GP

 

[ggroy]

I certainly hope there's a "glut".

As I mentioned in the original thread, as long as it's produced and distributed properly (most likely with a heavy slant towards PDF and POD), then I am all for another "glut" of products.

The range of choices available during the height of the 3.x/d20 era was awesome - not to mention the opportunities for freelancer writers, artists, and cartographers!

So I say bring on the glut!! I'm hoping to be a part of it myself!

My sources believe that the triggering event for the fallout of the "d20 glut", was the announcement and release of the 3.5E D&D core books in 2003. Tons of 3E 3pp inventory suddenly became devalued, both high quality and mediocre stuff. Essentially 3.5E popped the 3E 3pp "d20 bubble" of 2000-2003.

Assuming that a Pathfinder 3pp market glut is largely restricted to the PDF and Print-on-Demand markets, and Paizo doesn't suddenly release a new edition of PFRPG (like what happened with 3.5E back in 2003), it would be interesting to see how long a "Pathfinder 3pp bubble" will last before eventually bursting.

Even if Paizo did release a new edition of PFRPG relatively soon, I would guess that there could be less fallout from the PDF market. PDFs can be updated and released relatively quickly to drivethruRPG and other pdf retailers. Such retailers may have an arrangement where customers have access to all updated PDFs of the pdf titles they purchased previously.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Adventures and adventure paths in other publishers campaign settings (not the Pathfinder/Golarion setting) using Pathfinder rules. In other words, other publishers using the revised 3.5E rules (Pathfinder, developed by Paizo) for their own campaign settings and adventures/adventure paths.

Ah, I see. I didn't have 3pp campaign settings on my mind. So this boils down to the question - again - whether the market for Pathfinder will be big enough to support to support such products. My impression is that not a small part of the PF audience positions itself very close to Paizo. Time will tell.

I also think (like you) that Paizo makes some of the best adventures and adventure paths in the market. But Paizo probably isn't going to make adventures for other publishers campaign settings. IMO, Pathfinder Rules (and the Trailblazer add-on rules) allow 3.5E to reach it's full potential. And since, IMO, 3.5E was already the best rules system out there, this just makes it even better. I really don't think it's a huge leap of reasoning to want to see other publishers use the Pathfinder/Trailblazer rules sets for use in their own campaign settings and adventures. I'm eagerly hoping other publishers do just that.

So you do expect other/new publishers to come out of the current doom and gloom situation and begin supporting PF with new vigor? I wouldn't bet a cent on this, but, again, time will tell.

I just don't expect a lot of "complete" books based around the Pathfinder rules. Honestly, there are so many already out there for 3E/3.5E, that could very easily be updated by players and DM's for use with Pathfinder, that I can't imagine 3pp's would really be doing a whole lot of conversions. Also, with the economy the way it is, I doubt we'll see a glut or bloat for anything, including 4E, for quite some time. It's just the time we live in right now. Everybody is trying to think smaller and more efficient. Of course, I may be wrong about all of this (it has been known to happen), but as with anything, time will tell.

We have the unique situation that (prospective) publishers have possible products already being spelled out to them. They see what has been published for 3.5 and may be able to research the success of said items to a degree. Doesn't make this a rules-centric expansion a more predictable product than a nwe campaign setting? Maybe I'm too conservative, but as company owner I would avoid what I'd perceive as undue risks.

Anyway: not being personally interested in Pathfinder, I still wish Paizo and their fans much luck, and hope that Pathfinder does indeed generate a thriving community. And if you're right, and a cool campaign settings with cool adventures will be published for PF, I'll gladly stand corrected and check it out!

 

[Voadam]

Yeah, I one of those brand new 3pp's working on a setting, adventure arcs and rules splat for Pathfinder.

Initially I was just creating a simple ruleset add-on for my Japanese dark fantasy setting and adventures for Kaidan. Upon a little research, I discovered that neither Oriental Adventures nor d20 Rokugan was OGC, so I couldn't reference those rulesets for my setting. After a verified Email with Jason Buhlman, I now realize I'd have to develop my complete Japanese flavored ruleset.

A couple OGC japanese theme books you might consider checking out:

Ronin, OA in Tokugawa Japan by High moon media. $9.99 for 3.5 based feudal japan.

Legends of the Samurai series of books by RPGObjects. The Campaign Guide, the Bushido Handbook, and the Mystic Arts are the core stuff from them with a dozen new classes and a non vancian spell system (not sure of the specifics off the top of my head but I think it is skill based).

Kitsunemori offered by Dog Soul Publishing, a more folklore based fantasy Japan with fox women, etc.

Quintessential Samurai from Mongoose. A samurai splat book.

 

[Nellisir]

Upon a little research, I discovered that neither Oriental Adventures nor d20 Rokugan was OGC, so I couldn't reference those rulesets for my setting.

I'm a little puzzled about this. I own OA and the complete d20 Rokugan line, and while OA is not OGC, most of AEG's products are - including the hardcover Rokugan d20. They even include a supplemental license allowing you to use non-OGC names in otherwise OGC entries (ie, you can use the name of a character when that name is part of a feat name). AEG was one of the better companies with regard to OGC.

You'd have to contact AEG for permission to reference Rokugan by name, but the mechanics of the book are still OGC.

 

[DaveMage]

I don't think there will be a physical product glut at all. I think game store owners won't take chances like they did in the early days of 3.0. Plus, look at 4E, which now has a usable free license - there's no physical product bloat at all (except perhaps by WotC themselves), so I really don't think we will see one for Pathfinder.

PDFs, of the other hand, may be plentiful as publishers may choose to update their 3.x content to Pathfinder-compatible.

Personally, I think Paizo is producing a lot of product on their own, so in order to have a "3pp" product that sells for Pathfinder, it will likely need to do something that Paizo's many product lines aren't doing.

Hint: not adventure paths.

 

[El Mahdi]

... So you do expect other/new publishers to come out of the current doom and gloom situation and begin supporting PF with new vigor? I wouldn't bet a cent on this, but, again, time will tell. ...

Actually, I don't expect this to happen, I just hope and wish it will.

Here's to Hoping.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

While I don't know about a glut, there are a few publishers I really want to see make an apparence with Pathfinder.

Well, ok, ONE publisher, Dreamscarred.

Paizo, any word on you and Dreamscarred making some psionics love? :3

 

[ggroy]

Personally, I think Paizo is producing a lot of product on their own

Perhaps Paizo may be creating their own "glut", by releasing three (or more) new titles every month. Though so far their books are of a high quality.

Maybe one day, an "adventure path burnout" and/or a "Golarion fatigue" may possibly set in.