D&D 4E Is there a compiled Broken 4e Bits?

[Caliban]

Thank for the input, I think I will change RRoT to +1[W] damage on your next attack.

 

[keterys]

Well that is an argument for minions to be more realistic, missile weapons are extremely common in the real world

I'd agree that ranged attacks should be more common... but how does that help, say, animal minions. Like hyena minions for gnolls are very appropriate.

You hit this same problem with resistances, mind you - like necrotic resistance makes you immune to vampirespawn fleshrippers.

There's a few problems highlighted there, though - inadequate damage on many minions, resistance values too high, and battlerage vigor triggering many times per round and/or when you don't actually take damage.

and from the heroes perspective if I recall every one of company of the ring had one... Bilbo was a gifted stone thrower.

Many of their enemies lacked ranged attacks, however. Generally not the minion types, mind you, but the breadth of enemies arrayed against them wasn't all that high.

Do people complain an Eladrin can teleport every 5 minutes or so.. or do they abstract in between encounters or figure it doesn't matter that a company of Eladrin can travel through otherwise unpassable mountain areas by teleporting from cliff to cliff... Eladrin are the worlds best explorers.

Teleporting 25 feet every five minutes isn't that much more impressive than other options - I mean, Goliaths can roll two Athletics checks for climbing and jumping, every time, so they can leap across such gaps often enough, certainly climb much faster, etc.

Some people do complain, though, but I think mostly based on some sort of realism kick.

If I thought an encounter power was overly used overly powerful when used outside of encounter... a general restriction could cover it.
During an encounter spirits rise and energy with it... saying encounter powers can only be used once an hour outside of an encounter... Would that restrict too many things?

Eh, not really great precedent I suspect.

If unicorns touch qualifies as broken then the game must be awefully close to completely not broken so we are reducing the standard of what it means to be broken.

Yeah, I don't see Unicorn's Touch breaking any games. Maybe people are not arguing that it's broken in the 'breaking a game' sense, but in the 'this power is flawed to the point it should be scrapped or redesigned'. Using that definition, I could call lots of things broken, and it's not a bad definition.

I actually try to avoid using the term broken for such arguments, though - encourages boring play, trivializes certain encounters, overpowered, underpowered, dangerously imbalanced, easily exploitable, trumps <minions/solos/other game aspect>, etc are a whole lot more clear and less likely to get an instant 'That's not broken, my game's working fine with it!' or 'You just have to use this thing back at them!' response.

 

[Goumindong]

Citing something else that's bad isn't generally good support for keeping a bad thing.

And a standard action is a _lot_ different from a minor action I don't think RRoT would make the list if it were a standard action.

A standard action is quite different, but its also an encounter power, which is why changing RRoT to a daily makes sense.

 

[keterys]

Channel Divinity is an encounter power. You're not going to have a lot of luck convincing me it's a good idea to have a daily channel divinity

 

[Garthanos]

I'd agree that ranged attacks should be more common... but how does that help, say, animal minions. Like hyena minions for gnolls are very appropriate.

You hit this same problem with resistances, mind you - like necrotic resistance makes you immune to vampirespawn fleshrippers.

damage resistance called temporary hit points is indeed still a form of damage resistance

There's a few problems highlighted there, though - inadequate damage on many minions,

That could be considered an issue worth fixing in itself.

battlerage vigor triggering many times per round and/or when you don't actually take damage.

now I think it should only trigger when you take damage... scribble scribble scribble that is house rule that doesn't change my vision of the nature of the power... (something that doesnt actual cause you to take real damage is not threatening enough to bolster the adrenal response)

Many of their enemies lacked ranged attacks, however. Generally not the minion types, mind you, but the breadth of enemies arrayed against them wasn't all that high.

Tolkien really loved his spiders... I think they did face a lot of minions.. and yes most armed with bow or sling or throwing something

Eh, not really great precedent I suspect.

I admit it nails things down to specific time more than I like
and I don't like tracking time much ... having dailies renew every 2 encounters or once every 2 days ( if no encounters are occuring life slows down ;p isnt that the same sort of rationale? )

I actually try to avoid using the term broken for such arguments, though - encourages boring play, trivializes certain encounters, overpowered, underpowered, dangerously imbalanced, easily exploitable, trumps <minions/solos/other game aspect>, etc are a whole lot more clear and less likely to get an instant 'That's not broken, my game's working fine with it!' or 'You just have to use this thing back at them!' response.

A wise persion you are.. and I think specifying more tightly the impact on play may reveal something other than the identified thing as the issue.

 

[Goumindong]

Channel Divinity is an encounter power. You're not going to have a lot of luck convincing me it's a good idea to have a daily channel divinity

Why? Its not like its confusing, its just a daily power with the tag "You may only use one channel divinity power per encounter"

 

[Elric]

Citing something else that's bad isn't generally good support for keeping a bad thing.

And a standard action is a _lot_ different from a minor action I don't think RRoT would make the list if it were a standard action.

Why not just house rule RRoT to a Standard Action instead of a Minor Action? That seems like the simplest fix.

 

[keterys]

Well, to be honest I don't have to worry about the power in my own games and don't have a character with it so I'm not worried about it.

It does come up an awful lot in Living Forgotten Realms, however, which is not a house ruled environment. There, I'd like to see errata. The standard action method is potentially interesting, but I think less _fun_ than something like the +1W method.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns into some sort of use when you crit to do more damage type, which fits several of the other CDs.

 

[boolean]

Another option for RRoT would be to make the next attack (if successful) deal maximum damage. Still quite powerful, but not as much damage as a critical hit (no magic crit dice, no high crit) and, most importantly, no "when you crit" effects (solitaires etc.).

 

[Psikus]

My fix for RRoT may still be too powerful, but I think it's way safer than the original, and quite fun.

-Change range to "Close burst 5", and add the line:

"Target: An enemy that has critically hit you or one ally since your last turn".