Arcana Unearthed versus Arcana Evolved?

[Knightfall]

Query: What are the differences between Arcana Unearthed and Arcana Evolved?

A FLGS has Arcana Unearthed for CAN $29, which seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if I should get it or try to find the revised version.

Note: I just bought a copy of The Diamond Throne, so I don't really need more on the campaign setting for AU/AE. (I'm mainly interested in having access to the variant races and classes to use for World of Kulan.)

 

[Obryn]

I have both, and basically here's the rundown...

(1) Arcana Evolved uses more of the 3.5 rules than the 3.0 rules, so that's a pretty hefty revision.

(2) Arcana Evolved adds a very non-intrusive metaplot about the dragons returning. It gives some dynamism to what's otherwise a potentially stale setting. It repeats the information in Diamond Throne, but also adds new material.

(3) It includes a new race, and several other new options for existing classes. I can't point to all the differences, though. I know the Champion of Justice is new, and some class features incorporated the Arcana Unearthed errata.

(4) The Evolution mechanics are really cool - they add a lot to the setting, IMO. Basically, it adds new racial class levels for non-leveling races; and extends existing ones up to 6. These evolved levels are kinda special and tough to get - and it might kill you in the process.

That's about all I can remember, other than how colorful the Evolved book is. If you don't own either, I'd go for Arcana Evolved... It's well worth the additional price, IMHO, even if you don't end up using it.

I ran a wonderful campaign in it, but when we got to 12th level or so, it got to be too much. Magisters (and even Greenbonds with just a feat or two) get massively more powerful than 3.5 Wizards, and the bookkeeping is a bit more than in default 3.5. I know that Arcana Unearthed promised more balance to spellcasting, but I can only assume that claim was made in jest. It's much easier to get insanely high scores given racial levels, and the better-than-wizard-or-sorcerer spellcasting system ensures they can spam the best spells over and over again, at lower or higher power as the situation demands. Nevertheless, it's an amazing setting with exciting classes and races that's not quite like anything I've seen before or since.

EDIT: At one time, there was a conversion document on montecook.com, but I haven't looked there for a bit. You might be able to find it, still.

-O

 

[Voadam]

Query: What are the differences between Arcana Unearthed and Arcana Evolved?

A FLGS has Arcana Unearthed for CAN $29, which seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if I should get it or try to find the revised version.

Note: I just bought a copy of The Diamond Throne, so I don't really need more on the campaign setting for AU/AE. (I'm mainly interested in having access to the variant races and classes to use for World of Kulan.)

Arcana Evolved was planned as a super deluxe high end version of Arcana Unearthed that used full color, more deluxe layout, a bunch of freebies from his website integrated directly (rune warrior, extra champion type, etc.), and the Diamond Throne setting supplement included. It advances the timeline of the DT setting to have dragons return and in tension with the overlord giants, it introduces a dragon man servant race, evolved levels taking racial levels to 6, extends level limits up to 25.

AE is pretty hard to find now so getting a good deal on AU, particularly when you already have DT is a good option.

I've seen better deals for used AU though on American Amazon.

 

[Knightfall]

AE is pretty hard to find now so getting a good deal on AU, particularly when you already have DT is a good option.

I've seen better deals for used AU though on American Amazon.

It sounds like I should buy AU; although, I think I'm going to try to find it cheaper. (I guess it will depend on whether or not I come across a copy of AE.)

Which of the other AE/AU books are worth getting?

 

[Voadam]

It sounds like I should buy AU; although, I think I'm going to try to find it cheaper. (I guess it will depend on whether or not I come across a copy of AE.)

Which of the other AE/AU books are worth getting?

Spell treasury hugely expands the spell lists with srd and complete book of eldritch might ones done out AU style (enhancements and reductions). It doesn't really have good solutions for the every spellcaster has access to all the spells of their expanded spell lists problem though which applies to AU casters just like it does to clerics and druids in 3.5.

Legacy of Dragons is a decent bestiary.

I recently got the Lore one that Mike Mearls did which introduces low level ritual magic that is widely available and provides a lot of magic fluff/description, but I haven't read through it yet.

 

[Mentat55]

In terms of crunch, Arcana Evolved adds a new PC race (dracha, a dragon-man), gives races the option to take evolved levels, adds the ritual warrior class (and combat rites, mainly for the RW but also for the oathsworn and warmain), adds two champion types (knowledge and justice, I think), adds class progressions up to level 25, and a few spells, including level 10 ones.

In terms of fluff, as another poster mentioned, there is the return of the dragons. The AE hardcover contains all the Diamond Throne setting material in it, plus extra, as it details the Unknown West and the far southern regions in far more detail than DT, IIRC.

 

[Knightfall]

Spell treasury hugely expands the spell lists with srd and complete book of eldritch might ones done out AU style (enhancements and reductions). It doesn't really have good solutions for the every spellcaster has access to all the spells of their expanded spell lists problem though which applies to AU casters just like it does to clerics and druids in 3.5.

Does Spell Treasury completely reproduce the spells from CBoEM (and the SRD) in it, or does it only convert the key changes to AU? I guess what I'm asking is, do I have to reference CBoEM and the SRD to use it?

I do have CBoEM, regardless.

Also, does ST have any new spells in it? That's a key point for me.

Also, I'm assuming that I can use ST with the AU version without difficulty if I choose not to look for the AE version.

Legacy of Dragons is a decent bestiary.

I looked at that book today. I can probably get it for around CAN $15 (plus tax). It looks like a great monster book, however, I had to buy Tome of Horrors III today, instead.

 

[Robert Ranting]

AE also makes some revisions to various existing classes and equipment. For example, Champions gain the "Avatar's Allies" ability at 16th level, many weapons now have a parry modifier, so when used in conjunction with the total defense action or in the hands of an Unfettered, they grant a slight AC bonus, and many of the races had their racial level benefits changed.

A pdf listing of all the errata and changes between AU and AE can be found on Malhavoc Press' website here Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed Updates, Errata, and Clarifications


Also, the Spell Treasury presents full write ups of the converted spells, so you don't need the other books as a reference. You will note however, that some of the spells from the various listed sources are not included, such as D&D's inflict and cure spells, and nasty save-or-dies like Sussar's Death out of the CBoEM.

IMHO, however, the Spell Treasury has a great potential to break the game in half if the DM is not careful about what he allows at this table. While core AE casting is somewhat weaker than 3.5 D&D's (except evocation), some of the spells that made it into the Spell Treasury are quite simply, poorly converted, and often more powerful than the core rules version rather than a nerf. Meanwhile, others are so nerfed that you might never use them (Haste for example), and some just plain don't fit well with the setting (Greenbonds getting all Positive energy spells means they get a lot of converted Paladin spells, like Bless Weapon and Heartglow) Don't get me wrong, I love AE and I have been GMing it for years, but the Spell Treasury in my experience is a book that must be handled with care.

 

[Robert Ranting]

Regarding new spells, the Spell Treasury also converts a goodly number of spells from the Books of Hallowed Might that Monte wrote for 3.0. If you don't have those, then yes, there are new spells in the ST. Many of the spells from the SRD are significantly changed, especially with AE's lack of alignment, and the necessity of adding heightened and diminished effects, and various racial descriptors, which can give things a new flavor. Most of the spells also have new names, many of which are flavorful, but indicate more about the fluff than effect (Discern Lies becomes Gaze of the Sibeccai, True Seeing is Lion's Eye, Brambles is Cluatta (the Litorian word for punishment) etc.) While there is an index cross referencing the new names with the SRD names in the back of the book, I've found it somewhat annoying to convert.

As far as supplements go, none of the AE books Malhavoc put out are outright bad. Mike Mearls did most of the design work on them, and his stuff is always a mix of brilliance and terrible disappointment for me, but YMMV. (Obviously WotC liked his work for Malhavoc enough that they hired him to work on core D&D and to help design 4e, since he barely finished Iron Heroes before leaving Malhavoc)

Mystic Secrets: The Lore of Word and Rune presents a lot of new material despite it's short length. In addition to new spells and runes, it presents variant Runechildren and their opposite number, the Heralds of Annihilation, Rune weapons and runic templates that can be added to existing magic items, ritual magic that any character can learn, and several interesting magical locations and guidelines for making your own.

Transcendence expands on the idea of Evolution with evolved levels centering on evolving one of the six stats (Str, Dex, etc.), introduces a couple of new materials (daelren and Tylonian crystal), details the Totem Speaker base class (sortof a druid/bard that must be read to be believed...it's just exceptionally weird) and provides additional crunch for every core class in AE in terms of feats, PrCs, replacement levels, class specific items, new witchery manifestations, etc. In particular, the fighting classes gain a lot of new options from this book, balancing out the power creep the AE casters experience with Spell Treasury somewhat.

Ruins of Intrigue is a weird product. Half adventure, half setting book, it details a single city and it's factions and more or less presents the place as a huge sandbox giving the DM ideas rather than statting everything and giving it a linear plot. It has monsters and sample encounters and NPCs, and some really neat fluff.

As mentioned above, Legacy of the Dragons is a really nice bestiary, presented in a format that WotC would later emulate in MM 4 and 5, with sample encounters and lots of fluff for each monster. Some of my favorite monsters lurk in this tome, many of which are responsible for the most memorable moments of the first campaign I ever DMed. In particular, the Valloreans are a great villainous race that recaptures what made the drow scary before becoming watered down and mixes it with a dash of the Cthulhu mythos and Chaositech. Definately some of Mearls' best work.

Robert "One Man's Opinion, Formed By Seven Years of Play and Six of GMing" Ranting

 

[Voadam]

Does Spell Treasury completely reproduce the spells from CBoEM (and the SRD) in it, or does it only convert the key changes to AU? I guess what I'm asking is, do I have to reference CBoEM and the SRD to use it?

I do have CBoEM, regardless.

Also, does ST have any new spells in it? That's a key point for me.

Also, I'm assuming that I can use ST with the AU version without difficulty if I choose not to look for the AE version.

Spell Treasury:

Magic may be the most fascinating of all the interesting aspects of Monte Cook’s Arcana Evolved. This sourcebook expands that system with more than 500 spells -- magic converted from the System Reference Document, The Complete Book of Eldritch Might, and other sources, as well as all-new spells. Every spell in this 240-page book comes complete and ready to use with the flexible Arcana Evolved magic system, including heightened and diminished effects, magic item creation modifiers, and more.

This Spell Treasury more than triples the repertoire of Arcana Evolved spellcasters, from magisters and witches to runethanes, greenbonds, and mage blades. Also includes sidebars on the spells’ uses and introduces the new runic and soul descriptors. Suitable for characters of all levels.

Bold added.

So it is complete spell descriptions, uses srd, CBoEM, other malhavoc spells, plus a few new ones, and does not rely upon new stuff in AE so it is compatible with AU.