[4E] How exactly did DP "fix" the Paladin?

[CapnZapp]

I've heard how Divine Power "finally allows the Paladin to do his Defender job and actually defend" but exactly how is this accomplished?

I'm asking because I'd like to know if this only applies to the new builds of the book, or if existing Paladins can boost their Defender abilities too. And are there any differences how these new elements integrate with a by-the-PHB Str-aladin as opposed to a Cha-ladin.

Also, I'd like to know exactly which elements that constitute this boost, so that I can know what to possibly introduce in my game.

I'm not keen on just handing out the MP/AP/DP books "pick anything you like" - so I'd like to know what are the crucial new mechanism(s) that for the core of this claim that DP ups the defender-y Paladin.

Thanks for any insight!

 

[CapnZapp]

PS. Also see http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/263958-cleaner-post-dp-paladin.html

 

[Thanee]

Two things that come to mind are the second marking ability (Divine Sanction) and the Cha-based At-Will that can be used as a basic attack.

Those two already make quite a difference.

Bye
Thanee

 

[CapnZapp]

Virtous Strike you mean? How is that so much better than Bolstering Strike and Enfeebling Strike? Is is the "can be used as a basic attack" part?

 

[Thanee]

Charge (!), OA (!), Warlord powers granting extra basic attacks, and so on.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FireLance]

Virtous Strike you mean? How is that so much better than Bolstering Strike and Enfeebling Strike? Is is the "can be used as a basic attack" part?

Yes. For Charisma-based paladins, this makes their OAs more effective without the feat tax of Melee Training (Charisma).

For Strength-based paladins, there's the feat that allows them to add their Strength bonus to the damage dealt by their divine challenge.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Charge (!), OA (!), Warlord powers granting extra basic attacks, and so on.

Bye
Thanee

Simply said, there are more ways for the Paladin to mark enemies _and_ attach some additional drawback to it.

The Fighter, just by virtue of marking someone, can make an attack as immediate action. It doesn't matter how he got the mark - even a Bard can "trick" someone to be marked by the Fighter and benefits from it. Also, the Fighter just has to attack someone ,and gets to mark him. He can even use multiclass powers, ranged attacks or anything else that is an attack to mark someone.

But the Paladin doesn't get this benefit if he marks. He only gets it when he uses Divine Challenge. Now, with adding powers that allow to Divine Sanction people, he can affect more people. He still doesn't benefit from the above mentioned Bard power, but that's not a problem (the Swordmage doesn't get this chance, either). He is no longer limited to Divine Challenge as his only mark source. He can mark at range. He can mark multiple enemies even if engaging only one actively.

Other things that improved him are probably more that he gets a broader power selection so that all Paladin builds have enough opportunities to find something fitting their focus.

 

[Nifft]

Virtuous Strike is three things that the Cha-Paladin needed:
1 - Removes "feat tax" for Melee Training, since it's a melee basic attack.
2 - Cha-based Radiant damage.
3 - Saving Throw boost. This is nice because it allows the Paladin to be the guy who shrugs off conditions more easily.

Dovetailing nicely with (3), there is a feat which gives an attack bonus when you shrug off a condition, and there are powers which allow you to take the negative conditions imposed on allies.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

The paladin now has the ability to mark a lot of people, often at range.

Strength based paladins can now get the same mark damage as cha based ones.

But on a more subtle level I think the new paladin powers also help. Some pull in enemies, some give more penalties to hit other people, and some let you hit a lot of creatures (dead creatures don't hit your friends!).

 

[Destil]

Str based paladins have some level 9 dailies now too. And some very nice feats for damage, making them quite dangerous melee opponents.

While Cha paladins become better at marking in general, sanction always uses Cha and don't get the benefit from the Str feat. They can ignore divine challenge falling off once a fight at epic.

My biggest complaint about the class now is that they have 3 making mechanics (Mark, Challenge and Sanction), which can be a pain to track.

Challenge still has the unfair downside that it's pretty easy to loose it (and the real problem: loose your shot at being able to use it again on your turn) when the paladin gets stunned/immobilized/dazed et cetera. I was really hoping for a feat that removed the adjacent requirement (more often than once a fight at paragon) or the "Can't mark on your next turn" punishment...

Strength based paladins can now get the same mark damage as cha based ones.

Since the feat ADDS Str, strength based often can deal more damage with challenge (and there's a viable and potent Str/Cha build now too), at the cost of their sanctum kind of sucking (always Cha based).