The New Forgotten Realms - (About) A Year Later

[Echohawk]

I'll try to find the quote(s) from RB as soon as the WoTC boards are up again; I'm not deying the possibility that I might be misremembering the whole thing. I *am* quite certain that RB did mention other FR products, but as Henry said, it *might* have been more of a "If the FR books sell enough"-type of comment (well, this would also speak volumes to me about 4E FR's success).

FWIW, this version matches my recollection too -- that additional FR products were indeed talked about as a possibility, but only as a vague possibility if the initial three books did really well.

However, I don't think the lack of any immediately planned FR books is any indication that the first three didn't sell well. They might have sold very well, but not quite as well as, say, Adventurer's Vault and thus WotC is choosing to invest resources in products that they think will sell even better than more FR books. That seems like it would be a reasonably sound business decision to me.

Perhaps a better indication of whether the sales of the initial FR books met WotC's expectations might be to see if the three Eberron books get any follow up products. If we see additional Eberron books, but not additional Forgotten Realms books, that might tell us something about the relative successes of the two settings. If we don't get additional books for either line, I don't think we can really draw any conclusions.

 

[UniversalMonster]

There's actually a ton of 4th Edition Forgotten Realms material out there, all of it individually vetted and signed off on by the WOTC writing team.

I'm talking about 80+ Living Realms adventures. Current, available now.

 

[ggroy]

Perhaps a better indication of whether the sales of the initial FR books met WotC's expectations might be to see if the three Eberron books get any follow up products. If we see additional Eberron books, but not additional Forgotten Realms books, that might tell us something about the relative successes of the two settings.

We'll know in a year or so, if they decide to release some FR or Eberron splatbooks or modules in late 2010 or 2011.

The question at this point is how much "pent-up" demand is there for additional FR splatbooks or modules. (It may be too early to tell at this point for Eberron). I wonder how well "Scepter Tower of Spellgard" actually sold. If it did not sell any better than "Keep on the Shadowfell" or "Thunderspire Labyrinth", I can see how they may be reluctant to release further FR modules.

 

[Echohawk]

I'm talking about 80+ Living Realms adventures. Current, available now.

I realise that this is nearly unforgivably pedantic, but I count only 73 Living Realms adventures so far. Have I managed to miss a few somehow?

[sblock]1. Inheritance (CORE 1-1), released August 2008
2. Sense of Wonder (CORE 1-3), released August 2008
3. Shades of the Zhentarim (SPEC 1-1), released August 2008
4. The Radiant Vessel of Thesk (CORE 1-2), released August 2008
5. Flames of Initiation (BALD 1-1), released August 2008
6. Heirloom (WATE 1-1), released August 2008
7. Silvers of Eaerlann (LURU 1-1), released August 2008
8. These Hallowed Halls (EAST 1-1), released August 2008
9. The Black Knight of Arabel (CORM 1-1), released September 2008
10. The Prospect (DALE 1-1), released September 2008
11. Alone (IMPI 1-1), released September 2008
12. The Rotting Ruins of Galain (AKAN 1-1), released September 2008
13. Elder Wisdom (TYMA 1-1), released September 2008
14. Nature's Wrath (MOON 1-1), released September 2008
15. Lost Temple of the Fey Gods (AGLA 1-1), released September 2008
16. Many Hands Make Light Work (DRAG 1-1), released September 2008
17. Breaking Point (IMPI 1-2), released October 2008
18. Gangs of Wheloon (CORM 1-2), released October 2008
19. The Sea Drake (MOON 1-2), released October 2008
20. Crystal Clear (CORE 1-4), released October 2008
21. Dark Secrets of Downshadow (WATE 1-2), released October 2008
22. Beneath Haunted Halls, released October 2008
23. Blades for Daggerdale (DALE 1-2), released October 2008
24. The Gibbous Moon (LURU 1-2), released November 2008
25. Taking Stock of the Situation (TYMA 1-2), released November 2008
26. At the Foot of the Lighthouse (AGLA 1-2), released November 2008
27. Touched by Darkness (CORE 1-5), released November 2008
28. The Thin Gray Line (DRAG 1-2), released November 2008
29. The Night I Called the Undead Out (BALD 1-2), released December 2008
30. Marauder's Spear (EAST 1-2), released December 2008
31. The Depths of Airspur (AKAN 1-2), released December 2008
32. Unbidden (EAST 1-3), released January 2009
33. A Stab in the Dark (DRAG 1-3), released January 2009
34. Master and Servant (DALE 1-3), released January 2009
35. Incident at the Gorge of Gauros (CORE 1-6), released January 2009
36. The Worst of All Snares (AGLA 1-3), released January 2009
37. Black Gold (MOON 1-3), released February 2009
38. Lost Souls (IMPI 1-3), released February 2009
39. Sovereign of the Mines (CORE 1-7), released February 2009
40. The Woolmen's Restless Tomb (WATE 1-3), released February 2009
41. Property for Sale (AKAN 1-3), released February 2009
42. Head Above Water (CORM 1-3), released March 2009
43. Zhent's Ancient Shadows (SPEC 1-2), released March 2009
44. Shades of Blue Fire (LURU 1-3), released March 2009
45. Tools of the Trade (TYMA 1-3), released March 2009
46. Taken (CORE 1-8), released March 2009
47. Tome of the Traitor (BALD 1-3), released March 2009
48. Black Blood (MOON 1-4), released April 2009
49. Mystery of Deepwater Harbor (WATE 1-4), released April 2009
50. Darkness in Delzimmer (EAST 1-4), released April 2009
51. Prey for the Night (LURU 1-4), released April 2009
52. Ages Best Left Forgotten (CORE 1-9), released April 2009
53. Bandits on the Farm (IMPI 1-4), released May 2009
54. Death Before Dishonor (TYMA 1-4), released May 2009
55. Black Steel and Blue Fire (CORM 1-4), released May 2009
56. The Lady in Flames (DALE 1-4), released May 2009
57. Through Twilight Boughs (AGLA 1-4), released June 2009
58. Dancing Shadows (CORE 1-10), released June 2009
59. Falling Snow, White Petal (DRAG 1-4), released June 2009
60. Runes in Ruins (AKAN 1-4), released June 2009
61. Silent Streets and Vanished Souls (BALD 1-4), released June 2009
62. Black Cloaks and Bitter Rivalries (QUES 1-1), released July 2009
63. From One Dwarf to Another (TYMA 1-5), released July 2009
64. Hunters' Down (DALE 1-5), released July 2009
65. Lost in the Fog (WATE 1-5), released July 2009
66. Shell Game (AKAN 1-5), released July 2009
67. Silver Lining (AGLA 1-5), released July 2009
68. Mole Hunt (EAST 1-5), released August 2009
69. Songs of the Heart (CORE 1-12), released August 2009
70. Lost Refuge (BALD 1-5), released August 2009
71. The Fate of Camp 15 (CORE 1-13), released August 2009
72. Stirring the Embers (MINI 1-1), released August 2009
73. What Storms May Come (CORE 1-14), released August 2009[/sblock]

 

[Imban]

We'll know in a year or so, if they decide to release some FR or Eberron splatbooks or modules in late 2010 or 2011.

The question at this point is how much "pent-up" demand is there for additional FR splatbooks or modules. (It may be too early to tell at this point for Eberron). I wonder how well "Scepter Tower of Spellgard" actually sold. If it did not sell any better than "Keep on the Shadowfell" or "Thunderspire Labyrinth", I can see how they may be reluctant to release further FR modules.

When I saw WotC's (frankly pathetic) marketing for Seekers of the Ashen Crown, I was fairly sure that they were almost washing their hands of the idea of setting supplements.

Thankfully the actual copy is a little better on that front, since it no longer gives "This isn't really just an Eberron module it can be repurposed to anything else,,, buy me... please...? don't walk away..." top billing over the actual contents of the module.

 

[ggroy]

When I saw WotC's (frankly pathetic) marketing for Seekers of the Ashen Crown, I was fairly sure that they were almost washing their hands of the idea of setting supplements.

The marketing for 4E Eberron has been kind of on a lackluster side.

Arguably the same could said about the marketing for 4E Forgotten Realms.

Rather underwhelming.

Dark Sun was a bit more interesting, leading up to Gencon a few weeks ago. Though how much the hype can be maintained for the next year until the campaign setting book is released, is another matter.

 

[SSquirrel]

The "Time of Troubles" just to fit the 2nd ed rules in....*barf!* no need of that. and Cyric especially = complete loser as a deity (and that's a word I normally hate to use, but he is a complete drivleling non-entity gets to be a god and makes a mess of it and goes nuts...ah huh! You really think Ao would let that twerp keep that position AND cause all the trouble he has?)

Well he became the God of Strife, Death, Secrets, and whatever else he got from otehr gods he killed or out-did in the case of Mask. He really was doing what he was supposed to do for his portoflio, which was the entire point of the Trial of Cyric the Mad novel. Mystra letting her personal feelings from when she was a mortal color her actions and causing her to upset the balance.

Cyric trying to kill every other god by making the Cyrinishad is something else entirely and the gods should have just teamed up to smack him down and say no, b/c having only one god in that setting would have screwed balance completely. He was not a nice guy tho when a mortal and unfortunately the novels seem to take him from unhappy with how his life is turning out to turning on his allies and trying to kill them extremely quickly. They aren't considered great books for a reason, altho I do have a certain love for them heh.

I guess you could say that FR still gets supported via DDi (and I'm excluding LFR material here), but we already had that when Dragon was still in the hands of Paizo. So comparing the support FR gets these days to the 3E era makes the former look like FR is on life support, and fading fast. Frankly, I think WoTC sees FR as a novel setting first and foremost; LFR may be doing good (or not; I can't say one way or the other) but I suspect the sales for FRCG were not nearly as good as they expected (hence the sudden "only-three-books-per-setting"-policy, which was announced, I think, after the sales data for FRCG started coming in).

Another possibility -- as I remember it, Rich Baker said that their plan was to do the "three books and done" idea, but if there were enough public interest, they might entertain the idea of doing more, and then asking what people would like to see, if not for full books, then maybe some expansion material in the DDI. If so, then very likely he was either answered by crickets, or just more venom, so the idea didn't go any further than maybe some DDI articles. I could be wrong, but I do seem to remember a caveat like that shortly before the 4E FR release.

My memory jibes with Henry's on this. 3 and out was always the advertised plan. They said that the Realms ahd the possibility for other products down the line if they felt they were needed, but it would be a wait and see kind of thing.

Part of the reason the Eberron book is as good as it is is most likely WotC learning from their mistakes w/the 4E FRCS. I was personally excited to hear they were skipping things forward so much and making the changes they were. Yeah it's another edition change so alter the game like Time of Troubles was, but we've already seen novels with people trying to survive in the period right after major upheavals. Skip forward 100 years, let the super NPCs largely die off and leave the world fresh.

In the 2E days the huge amount of source material was immersing, altho toward the end of 2E, with Volo's endless series of guides (I mean, how did we not have Outhouses of Waterdeep by the end?) and other books detailing the setting to such minute levels, we had so much material it was getting overwhelming and hard to find an area of the world you could set things in and not have some super-pedantic player hard endlessly about how "that whole area has had blah blah" and "Didn't you read X book last month? The king is dead, how could he be giving us all orders!?". Yes the easy answer w/those people is to say that what hapens in the novels doesn't happen in your games, but it's still irritating.

I also agree that rebooting FR back to the grey box would not happen. The Dark Sun reboot doesn't even really invalidate the novels, as they are already saying that if you would still like to have the results of the Prism Pentad happen in your game you can, but re-doing the FR and turning time back 20 years or so would have invalidated literally HUNDREDS of novels. Novels sell more than game books, simple fact of life. There are times I've been pretty sure the novel lines were what kept D&D afloat, much like the GBA and DS did Nintendo for awhile. A lot of those novels were built based on publications TSR/WotC was going to have coming out, so if you roll things back to say those haven't happened you have invalidated a lot of stuff.

I do have to say I'm a fan of 3 and out tho. It means I can afford to pick up every setting produced by WotC and not strain my budget. 2 kids means less gaming books

 

[AllisterH]

Well, you can see where WOTC is really pushing "core" material.

Take for example the Hammerfast product. A generic dwarven outpost/town (and I think I wouldn't be surprised if there's one for elves coming out as well).

Such a product would've fallen under a campaign setting moniker before most likely. It seems like WOTC is betting they'll get more sales with such a "generic" town than one with specific ties to a campaign setting.

They might actually be right...

 

[Primal]

On a tangential issue, I wonder if Forgotten Realms was ever on the chopping block back in the 3E D&D days. (ie. If the 3E FR campaign guide had flopped back in 2001, there possibly may have never been any further FR splatbooks after 2001 or 2002).

I thought it sold pretty well, and when I bought my second copy (the first one had taken some... er... damage over the years) it was of the third printing. And I remember seeing FRCS consistently pretty high on Amazon's top seller list last year (of course, this does not tell actually anything, as that list is updated on an hourly basis, I think). So I doubt it was ever seriously considered. No doubt the sales of FR products decreased over time, but that happened to 3E in general; I stopped buying the books after the first 30 supplements had come out, because I felt that I already had enough material to keep running 3E campaigns for twenty years or more.

But if it had flopped badly, I think they might have done something more dramatic than the continual stream of RSEs; at worst this might have meant FR becoming a "novel-only" setting (I suspect this might yet happen before 5E comes out).

 

[Klaus]

FR 4e is the first FR I'm actually liking, but that is mainly because of Abeir. In fact, i'd love to see more info on Returned Abeir and its realms.