sanity check: Ranger fighting styles

[sunrisekid]

Are rangers permitted to select and execute powers based on a fighting style they did not choose?

Here are a couple scenarios to elaborate my question:

#1) Archer ranger selects Twin Strike. Can she execute this power while engaged in melee?

#2) Archer ranger selects Dire Wolverine Strike. Can she select this power? and execute it in melee?

NOTA BENE: Is the archer allowed to use the melee attacks while armed with a pair of one-hand weapons, neither of which is designated "off-hand"?

The two-blade style entry states that the ranger can wield a one-hand weapon as though it were an off-hand weapon, implying that this exception is not available to archers. If so, what does this mean for option #1 above? If archers are not permitted to wield, eg two longswords, in melee then are they at a slight disadvantage to the twin-blade rangers (who are permitted to execute archery powers at full capability)?

I ask because there is nothing explicit in the PHB stating a restriction, so I would like to read that as written; ie, there is no restriction on the ranger with regard to power selection and execution. But doing so will remove the significant distinctions between the styles.

Or perhaps it is also intuitive that for powers stating "melee or ranged weapon", this actually refers to the fighting style and hence sets forth the limitation based on what style the character selected.

*scratches head* I would be grateful if someone can clarify this for me.

 

[DonAdam]

#1) Archer ranger selects Twin Strike. Can she execute this power while engaged in melee?

Yes, but she must be wielding one off-hand weapon, or a double weapon.

#2) Archer ranger selects Dire Wolverine Strike. Can she select this power? and execute it in melee?

She can select it, but she can only execute it while holding two melee weapons. As above, this must include one off-hand or a double weapon.

So yes, there is an asymmetry: two-bladers can do archery perfectly well through heroic tier, but archers have to spend a feat on a double weapon to do melee at full effectiveness. Some archers thus take two-blade, especially if they think Toughness is as good or better than Defensive Mobility. The only restriction is on Paragon Paths.

This isn't strictly balanced, but it doesn't create enough of an issue to worry about IMHO.

 

[BlightCrawler]

NOTA BENE: Is the archer allowed to use the melee attacks while armed with a pair of one-hand weapons, neither of which is designated "off-hand"?

Technically, no one can use a non-offhanded weapon in their off-hand. Two-blade fighting style for the ranger explicitly allows them to do otherwise. So, if you take archery style, then no. However, there is nothing stopping you from playing an archery focused ranger and taking two-blade style (you could even take defensive mobility for your feat and get the best of both worlds).

I ask because there is nothing explicit in the PHB stating a restriction, so I would like to read that as written; ie, there is no restriction on the ranger with regard to power selection and execution. But doing so will remove the significant distinctions between the styles.

[/QUOTE]

This is how you read the rules in D&D 4th. If nothing says you cannot do it, then you can. You do not need to have two-blade style to selection the powers that require two weapons. However, you must have two weapons equipped to use them. Without two-blade style, this could be from a proficiency in a double weapon, or using a one hand and an off hand weapon. There is no secret code here. If it says two weapons must be equipped, then two weapons must be equipped, and yes, it's designed for the two weapon style. If it does not, even if it is a melee based power, you can have any variety of melee weapons equipped. In other words, the powers are entirely based on equipment, not your style.

The only disadvantage at work that I see is that any ranger (or really, any character) can gain the Archer's style by taking defensive mobility. However, an archer could use their feat toward proficiency in a double weapon, if one wanted to dabble in the two weapon powers and compare well to a two-weapon ranger.

Of course the other thing that's probably more important is the stats. Unless your strength and dex are identical, your ranger is always more disposed toward one fighting style over another. Archers are going to be better at archery because they are likely to have a higher dex, likewise for two-weapon rangers with strength.

 

[Trainz]

Of course the other thing that's probably more important is the stats. Unless your strength and dex are identical, your ranger is always more disposed toward one fighting style over another. Archers are going to be better at archery because they are likely to have a higher dex, likewise for two-weapon rangers with strength.

Even if they start identical, they will quickly not be for an optimized ranger as Wis is very important. A melee ranger raises Str and Wis, a bow ranger raises Dex and Wis.

 

[sunrisekid]

Great, thank you for clarifying this. Makes sense now after having described how the off-hand archer distinction works. Much appreciated!

 

[Destil]

Even if they start identical, they will quickly not be for an optimized ranger as Wis is very important. A melee ranger raises Str and Wis, a bow ranger raises Dex and Wis.

Unless you want the versatility or better armor class or something, in which case you're suck with low Wis. A Stormwarden using two scimitars most likely is going to tank Wis, and any melee ranger not raising Dex needs to start looking at chain/scale/plate at paragon tier. Still, this is a fair trade off in general.

If anything I think the archery ranger needed to get prime shot as a class feature (similar to the beastmaster lossing it). if I were worried enough about balance I'd take it away from melee rangers, but I'm not.