D&D 4E 4E Class Survivor - Round 6

[Glyfair]

The last of the leaders, the cleric, drops this round in a close battle. The message seems to be that WotC should have dropped all the classes that were leaders from 4E.

Well, we don't have the leaders to pick on. Who will drop this time? Is another of the roles going to be targeted?

Rules

1) Vote for the class you want to "vote off the list."

2) Please don't look at the current tally or the discussion before you vote.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

The message seems to be that WotC should have dropped all the classes that were leaders from 4E.

I have to say that getting rid of all the leaders is just plain weird (as I thought this one of the key differences between 3.x and 4E that seemed to go down well with most). Obviously not.

Well let's face it people, the warlock just plain sucks. Can we all hurry up and vote it off so I can start voting for something different? This process is starting to get repetitive and I really want to get to work on my next most hated class - the dumb ass wizard.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Nai_Calus]

Die, Invoker, die a thousand firey deaths.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think leaders would still be there if you were your own ally... it would make leaders a lot more funny to play...

at least spells which should affect the whole group should usually affect the leaders themselves too. (Why are you the only one who doesn´t regain hp when you hit the enemy etc...)

Still I think they were not dropped, because the are badly designed in general, but from a strategical point of view... you always go for the leaders first for maximumefficiency, and now you should focus on controllers or strikers...

I however seem to be marked by he swordmage so e has to go first...

 

[Dice4Hire]

I really do not mind the warlock, as it has four builds (that play differently and use different stats!!) and a good variety of effects. Yes, they are a grab bag, and a weak striker, but the conditions are a lot nicer than the sorcerer. The sorc is pure damage striker and warlock is mixed damage and conditions. Neither are bad at all.

But the Invoker gets my hate.

As for the leaders, I think there is a clique of voters who are skewing the results, honestly.

 

[wedgeski]

The last of the leaders, the cleric, drops this round in a close battle. The message seems to be that WotC should have dropped all the classes that were leaders from 4E.

Erm, a slightly extravagant conclusion to draw I think. Speaking as the DM of a campaign which has been replete with Leaders, I have to disagree!

Oh, and:
Die Wizard die!

 

[Tuft]

I think leaders would still be there if you were your own ally... it would make leaders a lot more funny to play...

at least spells which should affect the whole group should usually affect the leaders themselves too. (Why are you the only one who doesn´t regain hp when you hit the enemy etc...)

Self-excluded buffs can even be counter-productive.

Let's say you are a leader. You add a new buff to your repertoir, buffing some property X in order to help you party. That can have one of two consequences:

1) The buff does not influence the combat balance. Then the buff is insignificant, and that is pretty depressing.

2) The buff does influence the balance. Nice and good?

Well, since the DM usually sends monsters of a carefully selected difficulty level against the party, battles suddenly starts to be easier than intended. The only way to restore the balance, so that the DM gets the battles he wants, is to increase monster difficulty (typically by raising their level).

So the DM restores the balance. Suddenly the party is back where they were before the buff was applied; things are just as difficult as before.

Except for the leader, who is excluded from the buff. For him, and him alone, the balance has shifted to the worse... And he is forced to keep applying the buff, as removing it will suddenly shift balance to the worse for the party. And the buff is probably something he has paid for, usually from a limited number of feat or power selections.

So the end result of the buff is that everything stays the same, except for the leader, fow whom things are worse... and he paid for that.

 

[Somebloke]

Warden.

You. Will. Fall.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

As for the leaders, I think there is a clique of voters who are skewing the results, honestly.

Heh, I may fall in that rang...ok I do..but I didn't vote for the cleric. I have learned no matter the edition people really at heart hate the cleric. And the healer role as a whole

 

[cmbarona]

Please just die already, Warden. I just don't get you.

I'm puzzled about the leaders as well. I guess they require a mindset that doesn't appeal to most players. It certainly appeals to me, though. *shrug*

At this point, it's easy to see we're going to end up with a striker winning. The real question is whether controllers or defenders go first. I'm guessing defenders.

Edit: On second thought, controllers are more likely to go first. I think the Fighter will stick around for a while, and that's mainly because Fighters are really strikers in disguise.