Setting Difficulty Class

[Luguolo]

hey! i might have this in the wrong section, and sorry if i do! but i have no idea how to set difficulty classes! the book says use 15 as a base and add or subtract 2 for different things, but i find that doesnt really help for more indepth things, and i find myself always second guessing myself.

so does anyone have any good idea on how to estimate DCs? let me know! thanks!!

 

[Hawken]

You should be in the rules thread, not house rules.

However, a short and sweet answer to your problem is that save DCs are typically determined by the following formula:

10 + power level + relevant ability modifier.

Example: a Wizard with a 14 Intelligence casts a Fireball. Since it is a 3rd level spell and the Wizard has a +2 Int modifier, the save DC would be: 10 + 3 + 2 or 15.

 

[Luguolo]

You should be in the rules thread, not house rules.

However, a short and sweet answer to your problem is that save DCs are typically determined by the following formula:

10 + power level + relevant ability modifier.

Example: a Wizard with a 14 Intelligence casts a Fireball. Since it is a 3rd level spell and the Wizard has a +2 Int modifier, the save DC would be: 10 + 3 + 2 or 15.

sorry but i figured the system one uses might be house ruled. i dont mean spell DCs i mean setting DCs for like, specific things. how hard it is to dodge a falling tree, or to handle a specific kind of animal, or a tumble check. i dont have any clue how to start it, the books say base 15 and go from there but it feels so empty!!

 

[concerro]

sorry but i figured the system one uses might be house ruled. i dont mean spell DCs i mean setting DCs for like, specific things. how hard it is to dodge a falling tree, or to handle a specific kind of animal, or a tumble check. i dont have any clue how to start it, the books say base 15 and go from there but it feels so empty!!

Than handle animal skill should work for all animals.Tumble checks are in the book also. Dodging various objects usually involves a dex check or a reflex save that is modified by the DM. It is empty because even though there are rules for almost everything, the number of situations a character might find themselves in is endless so they just cover the most likely ones.

 

[Thanael]

Using Skills :: d20srd.org

Check out the Table Difficulty Class Examples for guidelines.

 

[Luguolo]

Using Skills :: d20srd.org

Check out the Table Difficulty Class Examples for guidelines.

i have looked there, and those basics dont really help. i am looking for what dms use to decide what is a BASE DIFFICULTY CLASS in various situations (as in what influences their choices, how do they decide, how do they avoid making them too strong or too weak, what do they consider to be a situation that adds +2 to the DC, or +3, or more) not just general information

i have all the books and have read them quite well, i still dont quite get how to set DCs EFFECTIVLY. a base 15 with a plus 2 or minus 2 is very basic and doesnt work. what do OTHERS DO.

Than handle animal skill should work for all animals.Tumble checks are in the book also. Dodging various objects usually involves a dex check or a reflex save that is modified by the DM. It is empty because even though there are rules for almost everything, the number of situations a character might find themselves in is endless so they just cover the most likely ones.

i have read the book, i understand what STAT is needed i am no fool in how to BEAT dcs, that part is easy, i need help SETTING DCs

 

[Sadrik]

i have all the books and have read them quite well, i still dont quite get how to set DCs EFFECTIVLY. a base 15 with a plus 2 or minus 2 is very basic and doesnt work. what do OTHERS DO.

I think you have a good, DC for basically dodging trees and whatnot. The more heroic your character is the easier these types of checks will get.

While we are in house rules though I thought of this many moons back, but a re-hash of the idea would be pretty fun to throw out there.

The idea is to get rid of level benefits to saves.

I always felt it was a little silly that it was harder for a high level character to get drunk than a low level character. So, I came up with this idea to combat that concept. Basically, Fortitude and Reflexes and Will are deleted as concepts and you go straight to the source. You roll a CON, DEX or WIS check instead. Spells no longer add there level to the DC, and you have to remove the +1/2 level for monster spell like abilities. The other thing you have to do is change how skill points work. My thought was give skill focus feat for every skill point you have at first level. If an elf wizard at 1st level had 8 skill points they would get 8 skill focus feats. Perhaps make skill focus a higher bonus or simply have them stack. Then you can standardize your DCs throughout and not worry all that much about setting a difficulty that is too hard or too easy for your players.

The game can assume
-1 to +4 for a stat
+0 to +5 for a resistance bonus
+0 or +3 for skill focus (or +6 too if you want to have multiples stack)

For a total range of -1 to +12 for a save if you set a basic DC 15 with +/-2 this seems highly appropriate for this system.

 

[Luguolo]

I think you have a good, DC for basically dodging trees and whatnot. The more heroic your character is the easier these types of checks will get.

While we are in house rules though I thought of this many moons back, but a re-hash of the idea would be pretty fun to throw out there.

The idea is to get rid of level benefits to saves.

I always felt it was a little silly that it was harder for a high level character to get drunk than a low level character. So, I came up with this idea to combat that concept. Basically, Fortitude and Reflexes and Will are deleted as concepts and you go straight to the source. You roll a CON, DEX or WIS check instead. Spells no longer add there level to the DC, and you have to remove the +1/2 level for monster spell like abilities. The other thing you have to do is change how skill points work. My thought was give skill focus feat for every skill point you have at first level. If an elf wizard at 1st level had 8 skill points they would get 8 skill focus feats. Perhaps make skill focus a higher bonus or simply have them stack. Then you can standardize your DCs throughout and not worry all that much about setting a difficulty that is too hard or too easy for your players.

The game can assume
-1 to +4 for a stat
+0 to +5 for a resistance bonus
+0 or +3 for skill focus (or +6 too if you want to have multiples stack)

For a total range of -1 to +12 for a save if you set a basic DC 15 with +/-2 this seems highly appropriate for this system.

while this is good, it seems a bit complex, i mean, it re-writes a whole part of the game, i might test it though, see how it works

 

[Scott DeWar]

a personal note on the concept of removing level based bonuses.

As a character gets more skilled in 'adventuring' they learn the early effecs of say : charm, and know how to easier shut off that part of their brain, there by an easier will save. However I agree that a level 20 person and a level one person drinking to oblivion shoud make a save based on con and not fort as this is purely the ability for the body to process the alcohol. Where as a person who has been under the effects of various poisens and are fighting some snake or spider or assasan should be able to recognize what they are upaginst are trying to not become subdued by the ill effects of those poisens. (the difference between intentionally ingested and not, per say).

does that make sense?

 

[Nellisir]

The short answer is, I set DCs to what feels right. Often I don't set them at all; I just make the players roll, and if they get good rolls, they succeed. If they get marginal rolls, they marginally succeed, or have at least enough success to keep trying, and if they roll a 1, well, they already know what happens.

If you want to be technical about it, YOU need to make a decision about how hard something should be. You can either decide this based on the task, or based on the PCs. If you decide based on the task, you may end up with tasks the PCs cannot reasonably accomplish (ie, a DC higher than any PC can roll). If you decide based on PC ability, you determine how easily you want the PCs to succeed, and then make up a DC to fit.

If something is possible for a common person to do, it has a DC of 20 or less. If it's likely a common person can do it, the DC is less than 10, and is probably not worth rolling for. If the common person can't do it, the DC is higher than 20.

The otherway is to look at the PCs skills. If you want the party to have a 50% chance of accomplishing something, look at the relevant skill and add 10 to the score - so, if the party has a 50% chance of talking their way in to see a noble, the DC would be (Diplomacy score = +12) approximately 22. Beyond the reach of a common person, but well within the party's capabilities.

Some people (like me) have an easier time thinking of probabilities in percentages. I think of somethign as being 50% likely, or 85% likely - it's pretty easy to convert that to 1-20 scale.

Hope that helps.