Or alternatively, "weaknesses" and "vectors for attack". How is the hero supposed to become dark, haunted and broody without human weaknesses like personal connections to be abused by?
Being kicked in the backstory is the most common use of it.
Three questions that help characters be fleshed out
- Thread starter Klaus
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Or alternatively, "weaknesses" and "vectors for attack". How is the hero supposed to become dark, haunted and broody without human weaknesses like personal connections to be abused by?
Being kicked in the backstory is the most common use of it.
Thasmodious
First Post
One of my favorite campaigns had a lot of family involvement, and I think I only killed one of them throughout. They got good use for plot hooks and providing problems, but they were also a resource, a connection to an area and a history.
The bard in the group was taught the business by his father and had a sister. At one point, the father and son reunited for a tour of the taverns of the big fantasy-opolis where the PCs were. Trouble ensued when an old rival of the father showed up and poisoned the father with some mysterious poison that required an adventure to undo.
The rogue had an extensive family, 15 brothers and sisters and living parents. Most of the family lived in a small rivertown, where they were an important local family. But several of the siblings had spread out to the far reaches of the kingdom. One brother hated him and caused some problems himself, another was a brilliant herbalist, but naive as anything and constantly found himself in trouble with loan sharks and business rivals, another, the youngest, wanted to become an adventurer like the rogue, but ended up going somewhere and not coming back, so the PCs had to try and find out what happened (they eventually rescued him from a Horrible Fate).
The barbarian was the second son of a prominent tribal family and joined the clergy of the Battlemaster and left his native lands, against the wishes of his father and rival brother. In one of the bigger family related moments of the campaign, when things were headed for the epic finish, he returned home to rally his people to go to war, but first had to win his father's support to be seen as having any standing. This required he prove himself to his brother and make amends (which allowed the father to die happy, the only family death I recall). After that, he rallied the tribes and led his people to war.
Point is, if you just use family and friends to "kick them in the backstory", why would they bother?
The bard in the group was taught the business by his father and had a sister. At one point, the father and son reunited for a tour of the taverns of the big fantasy-opolis where the PCs were. Trouble ensued when an old rival of the father showed up and poisoned the father with some mysterious poison that required an adventure to undo.
The rogue had an extensive family, 15 brothers and sisters and living parents. Most of the family lived in a small rivertown, where they were an important local family. But several of the siblings had spread out to the far reaches of the kingdom. One brother hated him and caused some problems himself, another was a brilliant herbalist, but naive as anything and constantly found himself in trouble with loan sharks and business rivals, another, the youngest, wanted to become an adventurer like the rogue, but ended up going somewhere and not coming back, so the PCs had to try and find out what happened (they eventually rescued him from a Horrible Fate).
The barbarian was the second son of a prominent tribal family and joined the clergy of the Battlemaster and left his native lands, against the wishes of his father and rival brother. In one of the bigger family related moments of the campaign, when things were headed for the epic finish, he returned home to rally his people to go to war, but first had to win his father's support to be seen as having any standing. This required he prove himself to his brother and make amends (which allowed the father to die happy, the only family death I recall). After that, he rallied the tribes and led his people to war.
Point is, if you just use family and friends to "kick them in the backstory", why would they bother?
Barastrondo
First Post
I don't tend to lean too heavily on players who choose to be orphans or without any sort of family, to be honest. As noted, some players aren't really that interested in devising families, and forcing them to do so under pain of disadvantage doesn't make them enjoy a "more well-rounded character" any more.
I've noted, though, that more often it seems that being orphaned, sold into slavery by your poor parents, having your parents go missing, being exiled or the like is meant to serve as the event that puts the character on the path to adventure. The call to adventure usually comes with some reason, like loss of family, why the character "cannot go back". This isn't true in every case, but it's often true when a character concept entails personality traits like "I could actually be happy being a productive member of society in a small town, if circumstances allowed." Absence of family NPCs can be a warning sign of a mentality where the player doesn't want any bonds for a character, sure. But it often isn't.
I admit, though, that I don't have standardized questions. Usually they occur to me as I'm talking things over with a player. I might ask what the player wants to get out of a racial/class/splat choice, where they picked up an unusual skill, or for a little more elaboration on a motivation. ("I want money." "What for? What do you really want to spend it on?") Preferably the player is also asking me questions, too. Optimally I want to hit a state where both of us are excited about the character and his/her/its ambitions and story hooks.
I've noted, though, that more often it seems that being orphaned, sold into slavery by your poor parents, having your parents go missing, being exiled or the like is meant to serve as the event that puts the character on the path to adventure. The call to adventure usually comes with some reason, like loss of family, why the character "cannot go back". This isn't true in every case, but it's often true when a character concept entails personality traits like "I could actually be happy being a productive member of society in a small town, if circumstances allowed." Absence of family NPCs can be a warning sign of a mentality where the player doesn't want any bonds for a character, sure. But it often isn't.
I admit, though, that I don't have standardized questions. Usually they occur to me as I'm talking things over with a player. I might ask what the player wants to get out of a racial/class/splat choice, where they picked up an unusual skill, or for a little more elaboration on a motivation. ("I want money." "What for? What do you really want to spend it on?") Preferably the player is also asking me questions, too. Optimally I want to hit a state where both of us are excited about the character and his/her/its ambitions and story hooks.
Andor
First Post
"Never ask that question!" - Ambassador Kosh
gribble
Explorer
IME, players who want that level of characterisation/detail will do it anyway, without prompting or freebies.
Although I did once run a game where the players got some bonus points at character creation (plus the promise of ongoing, in-game benefits) for detailed backgrounds, and the uptake and results were very good.
While I appreciate that thing for some games, most of what we play these days is good old fashioned dice chucking, beer & chips (pretzels if you're in the USA) gaming...
Although I did once run a game where the players got some bonus points at character creation (plus the promise of ongoing, in-game benefits) for detailed backgrounds, and the uptake and results were very good.
While I appreciate that thing for some games, most of what we play these days is good old fashioned dice chucking, beer & chips (pretzels if you're in the USA) gaming...
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Not in my experience... but that's probably because we've all been playing long enough to have encountered this kind of thing far too often:
Let me commiserate: that sucks.
- - -
I'm always looking for ways players can dynamically add to their backstory, with positive in-game effect. Some kind of an "instant aunt Ethel" card, which would allow them to gain advantage in a situation by calling on some (newly-invented) relative or whatnot.
Cheers, -- N
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Nifft,
There is a 3e pdf around somewheres called 'Contacts', maybe 3 pages total.
The basic concept was that each class earned 'contacts' at a certain rate. These contacts started as minor NPCs that could be called upon for information, help, etc. The cool part is that the player could define unallocated contacts on the fly. You could also 'upgrade' a contact.
I should sit down some time and mix these rules with CP2020 Wildside contact rules and flavor it for 4E...
I might even have some players that would use this sort of HR now
There is a 3e pdf around somewheres called 'Contacts', maybe 3 pages total.
The basic concept was that each class earned 'contacts' at a certain rate. These contacts started as minor NPCs that could be called upon for information, help, etc. The cool part is that the player could define unallocated contacts on the fly. You could also 'upgrade' a contact.
I should sit down some time and mix these rules with CP2020 Wildside contact rules and flavor it for 4E...
I might even have some players that would use this sort of HR now
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Cool beans, I'll look into it.
Basically I'd love it if PCs could somehow buy contacts and other plot-hook-shaped backgrounds with ... I dunno, background points? So the rogue could slap down his "instant aunt Ethyl", while the necromancer summons his 300 year dead ancestor's ghost, and the cleric chats with a cheeky cherub. All for similar mechanical benefit, but with very different spheres of application.
Thanks, -- N
Thasmodious
First Post
I don't think you need a whole mechanical system with points to spend and upgrades to pull off something like that. Just keep it simple, like once per adventure, a player can make up a contact that would be helpful for an immediate situation (the PCs lost in the Gorge of Confusion, happen to be near the hermit cave of Bald the Hairless, an old hermit who bought some magic shoes from the wizard's dad before going off to seek enlightenment within the narrow, endless corrdiors of the Gorge). That contact helps initially, and can grow as part of the story or not, as DM determined.
I like to start PCs with a contact that ties them to the starting area and this is a good way to grow that contact list in a way that involves the players so they are more attached than they might be to just notes on a sheet they made up at 1st level.
Taking from Savage Worlds, I also really like the idea of Adventure cards, dealt out to each player at the start of a session. They can play one card once during the session to exert a bit of narrative control that might turn into something interesting or helpful, whether its a bit of a boost, or a new contact, or a love interest. Also, their Dramatic Interludes system is very nice for fleshing out characters, developing backgrounds in-game and plot hooks.
I like to start PCs with a contact that ties them to the starting area and this is a good way to grow that contact list in a way that involves the players so they are more attached than they might be to just notes on a sheet they made up at 1st level.
Taking from Savage Worlds, I also really like the idea of Adventure cards, dealt out to each player at the start of a session. They can play one card once during the session to exert a bit of narrative control that might turn into something interesting or helpful, whether its a bit of a boost, or a new contact, or a love interest. Also, their Dramatic Interludes system is very nice for fleshing out characters, developing backgrounds in-game and plot hooks.
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