3e 18 months in

[Orryn Emrys]

One could argue about the value of this complexity--certainly 3E leaves more room for GM interpretation and nuance--but not about whether the complexity is there.

An excellent point. I prefer the complexity of the prior edition, in fact, and run my games accordingly... but to make it worth my time and energy, I use powerful software utilities to make it happen. I've been known to point out that, although I could certainly run a 3.x game with pen, paper, dice and screen, I would never choose to. I did, for a couple of years. Then I got smart, cut my prep time and headaches down considerably, and found myself able to focus on running a more fulfilling gaming experience.

 

[kevtar]

For our group, 4e still has levels of complexity that are similar to (and yet different from) 3.5. Take tracking conditions for instance. In 3.5, the bane of the DM and player alike were buffs and conditions (I have Bear's endurance, I'm raging, I'm grappled, and now I get hit with Ray of Enfeeblement from a CL 15, etc...) In 4e the problem is... conditions. I'm Immobilized, stunned, and prone. All of which end on a save or until the end of the offending creature's next turn. [sigh]

Don't even get me started on marking, lol.

For most players, these things probably aren't a problem, but for some reason our group has not found a reliable and effective way to manage these aspects of the game. It's not a design flaw, since D&D needs these types of elements, it's just that it's one level of complexity that often detracts from our enjoyment of the game. I'd like less management, or an easier way to manage game elements, and more time on playing.

 

[malraux]

An excellent point. I prefer the complexity of the prior edition, in fact, and run my games accordingly... but to make it worth my time and energy, I use powerful software utilities to make it happen. I've been known to point out that, although I could certainly run a 3.x game with pen, paper, dice and screen, I would never choose to. I did, for a couple of years. Then I got smart, cut my prep time and headaches down considerably, and found myself able to focus on running a more fulfilling gaming experience.

I think that had Wizards been able to get out a software package that exhaustively covered all the options covered in the books, a lot of the burnout on both the DMs and the players would have been avoided.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It's not a design flaw, since D&D needs these types of elements, it's just that it's one level of complexity that often detracts from our enjoyment of the game.

I would say that elements that detract from the enjoyment of the game are not really needed.

 

[rjdafoe]

I would say that elements that detract from the enjoyment of the game are not really needed.

I kind of disagree. I think they are needed. Wether you count them in rounds, minutes, or until your next action - they are needed. IMO the game will be worse off without those conditions, and problems would come up in lots of groups about things like knocking down, stun, etc.

The problem with 4E is that the amount of these conditions can get overwhelming without some kind of management. We have made counters that we set next to the DM controlled minis and on the PC side, we have poker chips with a decal of the condition that they set on their character sheet. These have made conditions easier to track for us.

I have also seen the rings used around soda, milk, juice, etc put over the minis. They fit nicely (on med and smaller fminis) and if used as a color coded condition, is pretty easy to see.

Condition tracking is my biggest gripe with 4E.

 

[CharlesRyan]

We have poker chips with a decal of the condition that they set on their character sheet. These have made conditions easier to track for us.

That's my favourite solution as well: Have the player put something physical on his character sheet. Helps to remember the condition, and to remember to make the saving throw. If I don't have a special token available, almost anything will work--sometimes we just use extra minis.

 

[ki11erDM]

I have also seen the rings used around soda, milk, juice, etc put over the minis. They fit nicely (on med and smaller fminis) and if used as a color coded condition, is pretty easy to see.

Fibrecraft 2mm Foam Sheets - 12PK/Multi-Color : Foam & Foamies : Kids Crafts : Crafts | Joann.com

Cut into 1" squares. Each play and the DM get a color. Put the square under the monster that has the condition.

Normally that is all that is required at our table.

 

[malraux]

Fibrecraft 2mm Foam Sheets - 12PK/Multi-Color : Foam & Foamies : Kids Crafts : Crafts | Joann.com

Cut into 1" squares. Each play and the DM get a color. Put the square under the monster that has the condition.

Normally that is all that is required at our table.

I know some people do the put condition markers under the mini, but I find that really slows the game down. You have to put the mark down, move the mini, slide the mark into position, put the mini back on top, then spend another minute arguing about where the minis you moved in this process originally were.

 

[nightwyrm]

I use hair ties with different color representing different things and hang them on the minis. It felt kinda weird for a dude with really short hair to buy a bunch of colored hair ties from the dollar store.

 

[fanboy2000]

I use hair ties with different color representing different things and hang them on the minis. It felt kinda weird for a dude with really short hair to buy a bunch of colored hair ties from the dollar store.

We use pipe cleaners cut and formed into circles.