Why do DM's like Dark, gritty worlds and players the opposite?

[Raven Crowking]

And I'm not sure that I understand what he meant. It's possible that we're talking past each other entirely.

I think that might be the case.

Then again, if I say, "I don't like X, Y and Z" with no reference to D&D until asked at all, then it's not my fault if someone assumed that X, Y and Z are integral and mandated by D&D when in fact that's not the case at all and never has been. If I've been misunderstood, it's because unwarranted assumptions have been... well, assumed.

If you say, "I don't like X, Y and Z" with no reference to D&D, then it's not your fault if someone assumed that X, Y and Z are integral and mandated by D&D. As soon as you link your dislike of X, Y, and Z to D&D (or vice versa) it is not a simple assumption that they are linked.

But, as you indicated, I think that you are talking past each other.


RC

 

[Hussar]

Quite probably. If I had a player who did this in a game I'm running, I would ask that player to leave the game.

It's rude to the referee, and it's rude to the other players.

But, it's okay for the referee to ram his preferences down the player's throats and we should just sit and accept it? Should the players ALWAYS be beholden to whatever the referee decides will make a "good game"?

Sorry, no thanks. I was not disruptive. I simply absented myself from that part of the game. You guys want to play Minelayer in D&D (a la Gorgoland's Gauntlet) go right ahead. Just don't expect me to sit through it.

In exactly the same way that I should respect what the DM/GM/Referee/whatever wants, I expect the same in return.

Like I said, I refuse to piss away my free time just because someone wants to play Sudoku or whatever other logic problem he or she has come up with this week. It has nothing to do with my character, it's 100% meta-gaming, and it's about as far from role play as you can get. (in my not so humble opinion of course. )

 

[Desdichado]

But, as you indicated, I think that you are talking past each other.

Sometimes this Internet thing is hard work.

 

[Rykion]

But, it's okay for the referee to ram his preferences down the player's throats and we should just sit and accept it? Should the players ALWAYS be beholden to whatever the referee decides will make a "good game"?

No, it's not okay. If the other players aren't enjoying it, you should bring it up with the GM as a group. If the other players are enjoying it, you might be in the wrong group.

In exactly the same way that I should respect what the DM/GM/Referee/whatever wants, I expect the same in return.

An RPG is a collaborative effort. Not everyone at the table will enjoy every part of the game. Walking away from a game during the parts you don't like is rude, no matter how you do it. You aren't respecting what the DM/GM/Referee wants at all when you walk away.

Like I said, I refuse to piss away my free time just because someone wants to play Sudoku or whatever other logic problem he or she has come up with this week. It has nothing to do with my character, it's 100% meta-gaming, and it's about as far from role play as you can get. (in my not so humble opinion of course. )

Puzzles and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive. If you are playing a low intelligence character, limit how much you help the party, even if you've figured out the puzzle. Of course your low intelligence character can "stumble" onto the right answer by accident if everyone else is stuck. If you play a high intelligence character, but are bad with puzzles, you can see if the GM will let you make a roll that earns some hints for the party.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Sometimes this Internet thing is hard work.

Quoted for truth!

 

[holyground]

I know i'm coming late to this conversation, but, for me, Gritty and dark are the hallmarks of "grown up fantasy." When I was younger, The stories I liked were simpler, and the characters were less angsty. As I grew up, I came to enjoy deeper, darker grittier stories and felt that the books I enjoyed earlier held less appeal. Now that I'm entering my 30th year, I can appreciate a balance between my grime and my... less grimey stories.

When I struggle to make settings for the game I DM, it's always when I try to reconcile my desires to go beyond "traditional" "simple" fantasy tropes. Even though there are no new stories to be told, covering traditional plot elements in a layer of grittiness is a way for me to approach things freshly. My players don't always need to be the anti-hero though. Sometimes they just like rescuing the villagers.

 

[The Shaman]

An RPG is a collaborative effort. Not everyone at the table will enjoy every part of the game. Walking away from a game during the parts you don't like is rude, no matter how you do it. You aren't respecting what the DM/GM/Referee wants at all when you walk away.

It's not only rude to the referee, it's also extremely rude to the other players.

And as a referee, I won't stand for that sort of selfish, self-absorbed, anti-social nonsense from a player. We are playing a game together, and that means giving as well as taking, entering the game with a generous spirit, and recognizing that if one thing doesn't suit your fancy, there will be many more things that do. If you have an issue with something in the game, please, talk with me and the other players about it, but don't just sulk like two-year-old who didn't get a prize in his ceral box.

If you can't handle the most basic responsibilities of participating in a social activity, then go inflict your behavior on someone who gives a crap, if you can find anyone.

 

[Desdichado]

To pull back from the various tangents and general pedantry that have kinda taken over the discussion...

For those of you players who don't like Grim and Gritty; what don't you like about it, and what would it have to have to make it enjoyable to you? Or is it just the entire concept that you're bothered by?

 

[Nifft]

To pull back from the various tangents and general pedantry that have kinda taken over the discussion...

For those of you players who don't like Grim and Gritty; what don't you like about it, and what would it have to have to make it enjoyable to you? Or is it just the entire concept that you're bothered by?

IMHO this question merits a thread fork.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Desdichado]

Sorry; I'm a signatory on the anti-thread proliferation treaty.