Grappling gangs

[Wellby]

Some questions:

1) Three hobgoblins grapple a barbarian, one after the other. Do ALL three hobgoblins move into the one square with the barbarian?

2) Monk joins the grapple to help her friend the barbarian. She also successfully starts to grapple. Does she ALSO move into this square of 4 medium sized figures?

3) One of the hobgoblins successfully pins the barbarian. To break the pin, does the barbarian have to beat ALL three hobgoblins on an opposed grapple check, or just the one pinning him? And may more than one of the hobgoblins 'pin' the barbarian? Or do the other two simply 'help'?

thanks!

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Wow. Tricky.

Let me preface my answer by saying I don't like the DnD grapple rules and think they need to re-written and clarified/simplified. The following is just the way I'd run it.

1) & 2) Yes. All in one great big pile. A 5 foot square is quite large really, especially if everyone is piled on top of one another. As GM you have to decide when there's too many people to fit in one square. And also when there's too many people trying to get a hold on one individual and you say, "No-one else can get close enough to the target."

3) You could run it several ways I think. Either a whole bunch of individual grapple checks. Each result determined separately. Each result applied separately. OR one grapple check, each side having a Main Grappler and everyone else merely using the Aid Another rules. OR one BIG grapple check: Everyone adds all their grapple bonuses together and each side makes one check. I'd use the different methods depending on the situation. Of course then there's iterative attacks. Oi.

Also don't forget that the Monk can use their unarmed attacks against someone who has them grappled (but not pinned.) Also they count as armed so if someone attempts to grapple them without the Improved Grapple ability the Monk gets an AO on them.

Good luck.

 

[Vegepygmy]

May I refer you to "Multiple Grapplers" on page 157 of your Player's Handbook?

 

[Wellby]

Thanks to both of you.

For the tricky number 3: yes, Vegepygmy, opposed grapple checks are only against one person. So, if two of the hobgoblins have successfully pinned, then the pinned person needs to individually break each pin before attempting an escape from grapple i suppose.

Drunkonduty: i very much like the idea of different ways of handling it, especially the 'help another', but don't think the rules allow it, as one (I don't imagine) can 'aid another' while they themselves are already grappling.

 

[Wellby]

Well, we ran the massive grapple, and holy smokes....did we ever learn a lot.

the monk chose improved grapple when first created. On perhaps three occasions she has used it, just for a round or two, to overpower someone.

Now TENTH level, and she used it extensively for the first time...and may well never go back.

In this adventure, she grappled a rather powerful blue dragonish devil outsider (abishai) to the extent that it NEVER did any damage to her, and she simply pinned it and slowly but surely killed it. The monk's ability to due 1d10+3 LETHAL damage TWICE every round while grappling is out of this world. This really has upped her fighting ability.

Can a monk use flurry of blows when grappling? My reading of the grappling rules is simply, if your BASE attack has two attacks, you get two attacks. Nothing increases this. (except maybe magic?) So, in the same way, although the Abishai with Multiattack, had claws, bite and tail...while grappling i only allowed two attacks.

Sound right?

 

[Vegepygmy]

Can a monk use flurry of blows when grappling?

It is often debated, but the FAQ says yes, she can.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Can a monk use flurry of blows when grappling? My reading of the grappling rules is simply, if your BASE attack has two attacks, you get two attacks. Nothing increases this. (except maybe magic?) So, in the same way, although the Abishai with Multiattack, had claws, bite and tail...while grappling i only allowed two attacks.

Sound right?

If you allow the monk both of her attacks, I would think the abishai should get all of its attacks to attempt to free itself from the grapple and/or counterattack. Also, the abishai can attempt to use its spell-like abilities as well, as they do not require verbal, somatic or material components.

 

[Nebten]

The Abishai can use its attack that are provided by BaB so each attack will less and less effective to get out of the grapple.

The abishai can also use Spell Like's but needs to make a concentration check. But most demons/devils have teleport at will so it should have been able to get out of the grapple . . .

 

[NewJeffCT]

The Abishai can use its attack that are provided by BaB so each attack will less and less effective to get out of the grapple.

The abishai can also use Spell Like's but needs to make a concentration check. But most demons/devils have teleport at will so it should have been able to get out of the grapple . . .

Also, don't forget that even when the monk is using her flurry of blows, she would take an additional -4 penalty to hit with her flurry of blows (Rules Compendium pg 60). You also cannot attack with 2 weapons, so I'm not sure if flurry of blows can be done one handed? The monk and the abishai are denied their DEX bonuses to those outside the grapple, but not to each other.

Also, the blue abishai does have multiattack, so it's sting is at +10 and its other 3 attacks are at +8.

The abishai in Tyrants of the 9 Hells do NOT have teleport ability, or even dimension door. However, blue abishai do have regeneration 4 and DR 10/good. Would the monk's attacks overcome that DR 10? They're considered lawful, I believe, but not good? However, they would need to make a concentration check to use their spell-like ability defensively to avoid an AoO.

 

[Nebten]

Would the monk's attacks overcome that DR 10? They're considered lawful, I believe, but not good? .

It wouldn't over come DR/good just like it won't overcome DR/evil. Only DR/Lawful