PC Problem

[~EE~]

I have a PC who's attempting to pretty much be a diplomat. He's a bard who's whoring out his Diplomacy and bluff skills so that he can tell everyone, including other PCs, what to do, think, and say. How can I stop this without telling him straight out no?

Other problems: He's my best friend, he's all pissy because I proved him wrong with the bluff rules, he's hypocritical by telling me that they can do anything yet, controls other PCs.

Also, if I'm in the wrong forum sorry. New 'ere.

EDIT: I'm just going to make this a generic help thread for myself as, I have a few questions.

 

[Vorput]

What edition are you playing? (assuming you're playing D&D)

3.5 had a rule that diplomacy could never influence another PC's action. I'd assume 4e has something similar, but couldn't say where.

It would certainly seem that this guys fellow party members, after seeing him lie all the time, would learn not to trust him no matter how high his bluff check is.

 

[~EE~]

I'm playing 3.5 D&D. Sorry for not clarifying. It's my first group. We've had about 5-6 sessions already (We do it every Wednesday after school).

But, they dunno if he's lying or not due to his bluff so, they can't distrust them.

 

[Vorput]

Well, you can tell the others players that they believe he's telling the truth. The question is, does he often lie to NPCs and do the PCs ever realize they've been lied to?

This may work a few times, but the rest of the party is going to quickly catch on. Mechanically- eventually you can start giving the party ad hoc modifiers on their sense motive checks, as they learn how often he lies and the ways in which he tells lies.

Also remember that bluff doesn't make a character do something. It only makes them think they've been told the truth. They still don't have to believe it or act upon it.

 

[~EE~]

Yes, I was told that bluff isn't the all around lying skill that makes anyone believe you and do as you say. Another problem is that he likes to attempt to makes bosses do as he says and then whines when I say he can't...(Not really a problem. Just makes me lul)

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

So, PCs should (mechanically) be able to bluff another PC, but that doesn't mean that other PCs won't notice. Many of us have had the experience in real-life of noticing that some people say things (quite convincingly) that turn out to be false later-- we discount what they say after that.

Bluff and diplomacy are useful, but you still can't make people do what you say just because you say so. The most I would do towards another PC is to say "he's very persuasive as he says this, but you don't have to do what he says." Likewise, "as far as you can tell he isn't lying, but you know he's good at bluffing-- you don't have to believe him."

But all that's about the mechanical problem. The real problem may be at the level of social interactions. So you should talk with him about your concerns, being upfront about the fact that you want him to have fun with his character, but you're worried that he may be cramping the fun of the other players.

 

[~EE~]

I was wondering if there is a better way of doing the grid system and all. Currently we're using Heroscape as everything. It seems good enough but, I was wondering if there was an easier way. Perhaps there's a program I could use instead? I'm currently using my laptop for a lot of the records, such as keeping track of the HP and such.

 

[pawsplay]

Neither diplomacy nor bluff are mind control. The best possible diplomacy check result is that the character will think well of him and give him the benefit of the doubt, not that they will agree to any particular thing. "This skill represents the ability to give others the right impression of yourself, to negoatiate effectively, and to influence others." If you make a red dragon Friendly, it will give you a Friendly warning not to steal its stuff or it will kill you.

The Bluff skill indicated "that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time." It does not require that they continue, upon reflection, to think you are making sense or are really telling the truth. Bluff only makes something plausible and convinces the target to belive it. Eventually, if the PC pushes things too far, they are going to be upon against the +20 Sense Motive modifier ("Your bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider." - "Oh, it wasn't you, this time? Yeah, that's totally believable. Riiiight"). Of course, some characters could make such a check. It's possible to make a character who basically sounds believable, all the time. Other characters may not be sure what to believe when they talk to him. But as the book says, "Bluff... is not the suggestion spell" and characters are free to be skeptical. Specifically, Bluffing someone that you are 20' tall, even if possible, is useless, because they can see you and the effects of your Bluff check will be countered by the evidence of their eyes.

Also, the highest level of Bluff difficult is "almost too incredible to consider." Literally too incredible to consider is not a possible result of Bluff, by the rules.

Also, "Bluffing requires interaction between you and the target." If the other PCs simply punch him every time he starts talking, Bluffing is not possible.

 

[MarkB]

If he's using Bluff to convince other players' characters to go along with his, then simply ask him not to. Inform him that by taking control of their characters' choices away from them - whether through persuasion or deceit - he is actively making the game less fun for them, and it's highly impolite behaviour.

If he replies that he's simply playing his character, point out to him that his character was supposed to have been built to be part of a team, and if he's built a character who can't work honestly with that team, his character concept is flawed.

If, after realising the effect he's having, he still can't behave politely to other players, consider asking him to leave the game.

 

[Kzach]

Given that he's a close friend, I'd just tell him straight up to pull his head in as he's being a bit of a dick. Remind him that the game isn't just about him, it's about everyone at the table, and regardless of whether his character is in the right or in the wrong or whether rules are being followed, that's all irrelevant next to the fact that it is a social event and that he should follow fundamental rules of decorum.

In other words, if his actions are negatively influencing the game and affecting everyone's enjoyment of it, he should cease and desist solely on the grounds of basic human rules of social interaction. And if he argues against this, then there are significantly more problems with him than you have the ability to solve.