Making a Physical Skill Challenge that Involves Everyone?

[Rechan]

So, I have a very specific skill challenge in mind, but I don't know how to make it just a big mess of Endurance/Athletics checks.

Here's the skinny: The PCs have a place to get to, in some sense of urgency. They are walking along a road. A woman, crying, runs up and asks them to help her. She's lost her baby - she heard her baby crying in that direction. Please, help her find her child.

Down a path, the PCs come to a big pile of rocks, and hear crying coming from under the rocks.

The PCs lift the rocks - and the rocks get heavier as they remove more. Finally they discover the bones of the woman and baby. The ghost gives the PCs a boon, and disappears.

The problem: this is a fairly simplistic thing, lifting rocks. Even if the DCs increase as the encounter continues. And, because I want to keep the fact there's something Supernatural afoot, that cuts out religion/arcana.

So how do I build this skill challenge to not be utterly boring for anyone not trained in Athletics/Endurance? And prompt those without those skills to use the other ones? How do I conceal the "reveal" to the others?

What I've got:
Barbarian: Athletics
Fighter: Athletics
Paladin (who has a weak endurance due to plate armor/heavy shield)
Invoker
Shaman
Assassin.

 

[fba827]

maybe use a primary prson's athletics and everyone else attempts to aid, but it's a really hard DC

alternatively (and more group oriented) it's a baby and two toddlers under a large pile of rocks. The way the rockpile is positioned, anyone trained in theivery or dungeoneering can tell (no roll required) that trying to move some rocks singularly will cause extra weight on the other rocks; thus all three rock sections need to be moved at once to avoid adding weight to any child.

or... other skills like theivery to know a good way to set up fulcrums and levers to achieve maximum rock removal without shifting weight (i.e. granting a bonus to the athletics checks).
dungeoneering to know something about the rocks (maybe they are a type that will be softer with some 'acid' based powers on them
religion / arcana (medium) to tell that the rocks are some how soaked with a strange spirtitual energy
heal (easy) to determine that little kids will not survive if the rocks shift weight at all
perception (hard) to notice a really really small bit of dried blood soaked in to the rocks - "perhaps there was a fight here long ago ..." (when in fact it is the dead mother's driedblood)
insight (easy) the mother seems obsessively focused on the children -- but that seems normal for a paniced mother

....
i'm forgetting the other skills right now so that's all i can think up off the top of my head (obviously, not all of it will necessarily work)...
but i kind of like the 'three kids' approach since it will force some spread out simultaneous action.

 

[kerbarian]

What happens if they fail the skill challenge? They don't move the rocks fast enough and the ghost gets angry or leaves?

You could include:

Insight, to tell that the woman honestly wants their help and isn't luring them into a trap. Or that she's not what she seems, but that her concern for the baby is real.

Perception, to figure out where in the pile they should dig for the baby based on its cries.

Nature or Dungeoneering, to determine how to safely remove rocks from the pile so the whole thing won't collapse and crush the (presumed) baby underneath.

Acrobatics, to wriggle between the stones and try to reach the baby once they're close.

Diplomacy, to calm the hysterical mother? I can't see how that would help get the baby out, but it's a skill that someone might use in that situation.

 

[Rechan]

What happens if they fail the skill challenge? They don't move the rocks fast enough and the ghost gets angry or leaves?

There's not an issue of speed in the skill challenge itself. The PCs have a destination in mind, a Keep. But at the beginning of the session, they find out that the scout outposts the Keep maintains with soldiers are empty (thus, the PCs can easily figure out - SOMETHING is up with the Keep!). Since one of the PCs is questing to reach this Keep because it is very special, there's a motivation to get there soon! The session, thus, consists of various encounters on the road that may delay the players if they choose to engage in them.

If the players fail the challenge: they just can't pick up the rocks; the rocks get too heavy, and they give up. They can't find the woman. The crying likely stops. They simply don't get a boon. Possibly they get lost for several hours trying to get back to the main road.

I like several of your suggestions - especially the Perception/Nature or Dungeoneering. Thievery suggestion is good too.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'd expand your concept of what the skill challenge includes so that it covers more.

For instance:

The woman approaches them, obviously frantic and panicked, to the point where she is just wildly raving instead of being coherent. The skill challenge becomes not ONLY to lift the rocks, but to find the rockfall in the first place.

So:
Social skills to soothe the woman and get more information on the rockfall out of her.

Knowledge nature to find the location of the rockfall by working out where the cliff (or whatever) is unsound. The same could go for dungeoneering.

History should give the knowledge of a previous, large rockfall that happened in the past.

Athletics and perception will let you find the rockfall by doing flat-foot work (athletics lets you move quicker, perception lets you spot things faster)

Athletics, endurance, thievery, dungeoneering and nature can be used to move rocks effectively.

Perception and social skills can be used to more accurately direct the search. Perception could also be used to look out for shifting rocks to help move them safely. The social skills can be used to keep the child calm (and if he's injured, that will stop him from bleeding out).

Heal can also be used to tend to the child while rocks are moved.

 

[Rechan]

That's a nice idea, but the problem is that it just becomes different phases where different players are sitting on their hands, as opposed to getting everyone involved at the same time. I want players to be able to be engaged the whole time, as opposed to wait for their character's turn/not be useful anymore.

Also, the ghost is going to know where the bodies are. And there are no alive children.

 

[FireLance]

In this case, I would not use the "three failures" model for the skill challenge.

I would make it a timed skill challenge, in which the players have to score [Number of players x 2] successes in three rounds (this is close enough to a complexity = [number of players] skill challenge*). This gets everyone into the action because a 20% chance of success at an Athletics or Endurance check is still better than doing nothing (make this clear to your players, though, as some may be too used to the "normal" way that skill challenges are run). Secondary skills such as Perception or Nature to identify the best rocks to clear may be used to score one or two successes, as may the clever use of class abilities and powers, or anything else that the players can convince you may work or has a chance of working (never understimate the creativity of your players).

If the characters fail to obtain the necessary number of successes, the wailing stops, the ghost disappears, and if they continute to excavate the site, all they find are the bones.

[SBLOCK=* (math)]A Complexity 1 skill challenge is functionally equivalent to one character rolling six skill checks and succeeding at at least four, which is approximately equal to one character rolling three skill checks and succeeding at two. Hence, a Complexity N skill challenge is approximately equal to N characters rolling 3N skill checks and succeeding at 2N. It is slightly more forgiving than a Complexity 1 skill challenge for one character as the more skillful characters can help "make up" for the failures of the less skillful characters.[/SBLOCK]

 

[MarkB]

So basically, you have a scene consisting of the PCs lifting rocks. Why even structure this as a skill challenge?

It sounds to me like you'd be better off just structuring this as a role-playing scene with a couple of group skill checks included along the way.

If you really want to do it as a skill challenge, then don't just make it a physical scene - once the PCs reach the cairn, let them cotton on immediately that the woman is a spirit in need of their assistance, and as they clear the cairn, have 'dark spirits' attempt to hinder their progress by holding down the rocks and draining the PCs' energy. That opens up applications of Endurance, Religion, Arcana, even Diplomacy and Intimidate if the PCs address the hindering spirits directly. You could even bring in History as a supporting skill (recalling any tales of a mother and child disappearing on this road).

 

[BASHMAN]

Wow- it sounds like you created a very cool "The Sixth Sense" moment for your game. Don't ruin it by making it into some convoluted skill challenge. You can just easily do this via role-play. If the character is strong enough to lift the rocks, they're strong enough to lift the rocks- why bother rolling? This should just be a plot element.

 

[cattoy]

A skill challenge that involves everyone?

Outrun the bear. You don't have to outrun the fastest PC. You have to outrun the slowest PC.

Let the party's lowest skill roll define the overall success. Allow someone with a superior roll to take 5 ranks to bump a laggard's roll by 2. Before the roll, of course.

Tally all of the results and compare to an opponent that is better than the slugs, worse than the studs. That way, the party surges ahead, falls back, pushes forward, falls behind on every roll. (on the average) making for an entertaining back and forth high tension affair.