D&D 4E How do I create an NPC Locksmith in 4e?

[StAlda]

Who did I insult? I thought Ketjak was hilarious and was playing off his post....

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

My opinion differs slightly from the above, in that if you are making an NPC locksmith to pick a lock (makes sense, right) then his ability to pick locks should hinge on plot, not random chance.

In other words, without knowing the exact scenario that he will show up in, my view is that he doesn't need ranks in Thievery, by the DM's will he either gets in or doesn't. Focus more on what you want him to *do* in combat than what he does for a living. All of that can be determined by you at your whim, you are Gods, for heaven's sake. So, *if* the PC's encounter him, what kind of encounter do you want it to be? Work from there.

Jay

This is a good point and I was kind of thinking the same thing myself. Chances are the plot will require a specific lock to be picked. You can handle it within the rules though, simply make the guy's skill bonus high enough that he CAN pick the lock. Its a repeatable skill, so unless its a huge time crunch situation he only needs to be able to manage to actually do it on a roll of 20. The DM gets to set the DC of the lock, so arranging it is perfectly simple.

As for the combat capability of such an NPC, if the situation is not going to be dangerous for him then don't even bother with combat stats, he picks the lock, takes his fee, and exits stage right. Even if the PCs have a scuffle with him he probably STILL doesn't need combat stats, just have them whack him one and he reacts however you want him to (surrenders, dies, whatever). He COULD be a minion, but unless the scene involves some doubt about who's going to win or the party needs to do something special to defeat him combat stats won't matter. 4e is VERY free-form and its best to approach it from the standpoint of "what makes the plot of my story work and is fun for the players" than from a hard and fast rules based perspective.

 

[StAlda]

I think the locksmith is to easy to just say "he unlocks it" - or not. But what if I need a Diplomat real quick that the PCs might do an opposing role against and might interact with several times (so for consistancy's sake, I what him to have the same abilities the next time they interact with him). Like I said in the Houserules forum, I (personally) like to have at least a scaffolding I can throw a person together that is somewhat fleshed out.

 

[Turtlejay]

I see your point, and it is valid. Most of the time, however, you can handle these things with either page 42, or the monster creation rules on-the-fly. If they suddenly punch someone you didn't think they'd punch, take 10 seconds to flip to the appropriate page, and have them do their thing.

Really, I think this is not a *huge* deal, and I'll illustrate. In our last session our PC's were trapped in this illusory bubble/time warp in the Mournlands. We had figured out that nearly every meaningful person we had interacted with in the past two months were in fact illusions. While walking through the market, my PC was approached by a seller, and in a fit of frustration, took a swing at him. The DM had me roll an attack. I hit, the seller dropped his wares and ran away.

I know that my DM did not have stats for this guy, and he didn't look anything up. He decided on the spot whether that roll was good enough, and roleplayed it accordingly. In this same 'trap' we are caught in, there are several soldiers and other dangerous baddies. If he thought the seller was dangerous, he could have thrown in the stats of a town guard and we would have had a scuffle. He didn't, because he didn't need to. It did not fit the situation. It did not further the story.

I still feel like maybe this locksmith thing is being worked at from the wrong side. *First* decide how or why he might get attacked, then decide whether it is worth it for the party to fight him. If you still need stats on it, there are several hundred appropriate stats, of all levels, in the compendium for you to steal. That is barring you taking a 2 minute break to make something up.

I see your template in the House Rules forum, and it is a nice system, but big and bloated and retro, in a we-don't-need-that kind of way. Like fins on cars, your idea is not a bad thing necessarily, but is unwarranted. Look seriously at the advice in this thread. Several very smart people (not me) have given you ways to do this in a much easier manner, and they are backed in this by much experience with the game system.

As always, this is all just opinion, and ill-worded at that. No offense taken if you do not agree.

Jay

 

[StAlda]

I guess maybe the disconnect here is that I don't want to have a preconcieved outcome to what an NPC does. If the Locksmith does or doesn't accomplish what he is tasked, the PCs have to deal with. Let the dice decide. If they confront him (which in the plot may happen), does the attack scare him, knock him down, or kill him. That depends on the power the PC uses, Brute Strike will probably kill him (but maybe not). If he is killed, the PC may be wanted for murder (this is a city adventure), and the adventure changes from the original plot to an escape plot. Look it took me about 20 minutes to come up with the template (comparing this and that), and about 2 minutes to make the Locksmith from that. Now I'm prepared for whatever happens, and I don't care what scenerio does happen.

This is NOT to say I haven't heard you all, I appreciate the input. As far as retro goes, it has been pointed out to me the order of the Ability scores in Build Options of the template. Yep, that's how long I've been playing.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I guess maybe the disconnect here is that I don't want to have a preconcieved outcome to what an NPC does. If the Locksmith does or doesn't accomplish what he is tasked, the PCs have to deal with. Let the dice decide. If they confront him (which in the plot may happen), does the attack scare him, knock him down, or kill him. That depends on the power the PC uses, Brute Strike will probably kill him (but maybe not). If he is killed, the PC may be wanted for murder (this is a city adventure), and the adventure changes from the original plot to an escape plot. Look it took me about 20 minutes to come up with the template (comparing this and that), and about 2 minutes to make the Locksmith from that. Now I'm prepared for whatever happens, and I don't care what scenerio does happen.

This is NOT to say I haven't heard you all, I appreciate the input. As far as retro goes, it has been pointed out to me the order of the Ability scores in Build Options of the template. Yep, that's how long I've been playing.

LOL, yeah, I still have to remember not to order things STR, DEX, CON like in the old days.

I think its fine to rely on the game mechanics, I've just come to the conclusion that dice aren't the best arbiters of plot direction. Granted they will always have the potential to change the plot, but I now shy away from situations where a single die roll causes a plot point. Of course there will be plenty of situations where no major plot point is involved and dice can put a bit of randomness into things. It is definitely a bit of a departure from "old school" DMing though.

 

[Garthanos]

I dont see the template giving me the things I need to put him in an adventure...

Virtually any mechanics would likely be "baggage" to me even the 2 minutes you mention wouldnt be needed.... heck if I feel like researching ancient locksmithing techniques.... that feels like it would be better time spent than designing the template.
The Ancient Art of the Locksmith by Valerie Oliphent. And then I will think about how a highly magical world is likely to impact on the culture of locksmithing... have they embraced it? how? and do most resist it tooth and nail... are they once rich artisans reduced to poverty? Yup, I am likely to over-work the character too... heheh

Those minutes couldnt tell me that Joseph likes dried oranges or that he has a daughter he dotes on with brown curly hair or that he gets easily offended if somebody doubts one of his locks but forgives quickly or that he has a real heated competition going with his cousin across town ... if you mention the cousins name he might knock the price of his services down a little making sure you don't go to the cousin. The description of his unstained and finely tooled leather apron, is something I might spend time considering. Or how his hair is shot through with black and gray a minor clue that the daughter is an adopted war waif ... her eyes are blue and his are brown. I might think about how his shop smells of clean oils with a metallic twang to them. I might consider his long tapered fingers with tightly trimmed nails like he bites them.

If I just want dice to swing something that I don't have an opinion on ? high is good ... low is bad. If somehow Joseph entered in to a fight (with the players) that involved that daughter? I might even pick a soldier with actual hit points not just a minion as his combat "template". Heros are sometimes just normal people with a "real" reason to inspire them.

 

[Ketjak]

Who did I insult? I thought Ketjak was hilarious and was playing off his post....

Horribly insulted; vorpal keys are for munchkins!

Hey, I just noticed you're in Santa Monica. Got room at your table? We can PM or email about this since it's OT.

 

[StAlda]

I am no longer in Santa Monica, now in Pennsyvania - I assume you are no longer in Moutlake Terrace, WA.... I think we both might need to update our profiles

 

[Rel]

"fairy skipping lightly through the dew on a moonlit eve" is totally broken. Not letting that in my game.