In which D&D product did Orcus die?

[the Jester]

One of these days I'm going to make the time to fix all of the errors in that...

I just read through it, and there are several. However, overall, it's a good synopsis of Orcus' life, death and undeath.

I'd love to see it updated with post-2e info! (hint hint)

 

[Alzrius]

I just read through it, and there are several. However, overall, it's a good synopsis of Orcus' life, death and undeath.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Out of curiosity, what errors did you notice? As I recall, the ones I had jotted down were as follows:

1) I'd referred to Kazgoroth (the Darkwalker from the Moonshae Trilogy) where I meant St. Kargoth.

2) Given how Mystara was incorporated into 2E, my idea of eschewing references to Orcus in Basic D&D due to prohibition in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia on intermingling gods and Immortals seems incorrect now (e.g. the appendix from Warriors of Heaven that lists various Immortals as AD&D deities).

3) H1-4 are ignored totally, which was a major oversight.

I'd love to see it updated with post-2e info! (hint hint)

Now that I actually have some free time, I might just be able to get updating this history off of my "to do" list.

 

[Stormonu]

Oddly, I'd always assumed that Kiaranselee's usurpation of Orcus occurred in one of the FR novels. I'd thought it was one of the Drizzt novels this was mentioned in (I've never read any of the novels)?

 

[dead]

Very interesting. So it is as I thought, Orcus's death takes place on the side lines. I really wonder what the design goal to kill him and replace him with Kiaransalee was?

It's interesting to hear the H-series is so bad. Is it just H4 that is bad or are all of them terrible? I understand the first one is more or less a Battlesystem scenario, but it looks like in H2 and H3 there is more dungeon-delving. Are they good delves?

 

[diaglo]

Very interesting. So it is as I thought, Orcus's death takes place on the side lines. I really wonder what the design goal to kill him and replace him with Kiaransalee was?

It's interesting to hear the H-series is so bad. Is it just H4 that is bad or are all of them terrible? I understand the first one is more or less a Battlesystem scenario, but it looks like in H2 and H3 there is more dungeon-delving. Are they good delves?

the whole H series is playable with Battlesystem. your General is the 100th lvl guy.

they have a dungeon delve available in them if you want to go with an adventuring party of 18th lvl.

about on par as a dungeon delve as another module of that era. WG7 Castle Greyhawk.

 

[Garnfellow]

Very interesting. So it is as I thought, Orcus's death takes place on the side lines. I really wonder what the design goal to kill him and replace him with Kiaransalee was?

I think the only design goal was to remove or significantly alter monsters that most clearly screamed "DEMON!!!!" to the angry mother crowd. (And no, I don't think the designers were at all consistent in their decisions. How does the succubus get a pass? Anyway, this is the sort of stupidly arbitrary stuff you get with self-censorship.)

You can call Demogorgon with his weird jumbled anatomy the "Prince of Tanar'ri" and to your average mother, he's just a very odd monster.

But there's no simple paint job that can be dropped on Orcus or Graz'zt. A grossly fat, ram-headed figure with bat wings and serpent's tail? You can call him a modron all day long, but he sure looks like a DEMON!!! to an angry mom.

I think the Kiaransalee backstory was just a way for the designers to salvage at least some good out of the whole censorship mess. Orcus was gone, yes, but at least he was still acknowledged within the canon . . . and the door was open for an eventual return.

 

[catsclaw227]

Can someone summarize what happened with Orcus, how (why?) he got killed and how he returned?

I assume that some of you know the story, and that this thread was simply about finding out in what supplement it actually happened. For whatever reason, in my 30+ years of D&D gaming I never knew that he died and then returned.

Then again, I was mostly playing homebrews in the 80s and 90s, only followed Planescape on the surface, and didn't read many D&D novels except for The Icewind Dale Trilogy and the first three of The Avatar Series. (Isn't the Time of Troubles an RSE?)

 

[the Jester]

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Out of curiosity, what errors did you notice? As I recall, the ones I had jotted down were as follows:

1) I'd referred to Kazgoroth (the Darkwalker from the Moonshae Trilogy) where I meant St. Kargoth.

2) Given how Mystara was incorporated into 2E, my idea of eschewing references to Orcus in Basic D&D due to prohibition in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia on intermingling gods and Immortals seems incorrect now (e.g. the appendix from Warriors of Heaven that lists various Immortals as AD&D deities).

3) H1-4 are ignored totally, which was a major oversight.

Death knights were originally created by Demogorgon, according to the 1e FF.

 

[the Jester]

Can someone summarize what happened with Orcus, how (why?) he got killed and how he returned?

Read Alzrius' link above.

 

[diaglo]

Death knights were originally created by Demogorgon, according to the 1e FF.

i thot they were in White Dwarf before they made it into the FF.

i'd check but my White Dwarf collection has gone.